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Old September 14 2013, 05:54 PM   #1291
Savage Dragon
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I'm just hoping its a cruel hoax.
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Old September 14 2013, 06:09 PM   #1292
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I didn't think they were far enough along to start issuing scripts
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Old September 14 2013, 06:14 PM   #1293
Savage Dragon
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Maybe they're going to do a "Death of the Family" flashback in the movie and he'll be Jason Todd.
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Old September 14 2013, 06:25 PM   #1294
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Is it just me, or are the DC superheroes except for Superman and Batman extremely lame? Aquaman, Flash, Green Hornet, Green Lantern? Please.

I can't see how I could taken any of these seriously in live action films like the current movie Marvel Avengers.
I don't know, I thought JLU proved that these characters could be pretty damn cool when written the right way, and given some good stories. Hell, I used to think Green Arrow was one of the lamest superheroes ever made, but he ended up being one of the most interesting characters on that show!

And to be fair, before the Marvel movies made them work, the general public probably found most of those characters to be pretty lame and cheesy as well.

I don't think there's anything inherently more interesting about those Marvel characters; I think it just depends on how well they're written and realized on screen.
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Old September 14 2013, 06:54 PM   #1295
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
And you thought the Batfleck was a shitstorm.
This will be more of a shit hurricane.

A shit-icane, if you will.
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Last edited by Set Harth; September 15 2013 at 04:44 AM.
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Old September 14 2013, 07:06 PM   #1296
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
So this happened: Justin Bieber posted an instagram of himself last night holding a Superman vs Batman script, with the tag #robin.

Attachment 760

And you thought the Batfleck was a shitstorm.
It's for a funny or die parody thing I believe

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Old September 14 2013, 07:11 PM   #1297
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I vote for the latter.
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Old September 14 2013, 07:13 PM   #1298
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Thank the freakin lord.
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Old September 15 2013, 04:24 AM   #1299
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Is it just me, or are the DC superheroes except for Superman and Batman extremely lame? Aquaman, Flash, Green Hornet, Green Lantern? Please.

I can't see how I could taken any of these seriously in live action films like the current movie Marvel Avengers.
I really don't see where one is any more rediculous than the others. If you go back to the comics both sets are characters are pretty equally fanciful, it's just in the movies that they are being approached from such drastically different directions.
I mean is Wonder Woman really any more ridiculous than Thor or Captain Marvel?
What about the Green Lantern Corps and the Nova Corps (who will be appearing in The Guardians of the Galaxy)?
Honestly, as I've started getting in to the comics more, I've been amazed how similar the two companies' characters are.
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Old September 15 2013, 05:11 AM   #1300
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

JD wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Is it just me, or are the DC superheroes except for Superman and Batman extremely lame? Aquaman, Flash, Green Hornet, Green Lantern? Please.

I can't see how I could taken any of these seriously in live action films like the current movie Marvel Avengers.
I really don't see where one is any more rediculous than the others. If you go back to the comics both sets are characters are pretty equally fanciful, it's just in the movies that they are being approached from such drastically different directions.
I mean is Wonder Woman really any more ridiculous than Thor or Captain Marvel?
What about the Green Lantern Corps and the Nova Corps (who will be appearing in The Guardians of the Galaxy)?
Honestly, as I've started getting in to the comics more, I've been amazed how similar the two companies' characters are.
That is probably because by now there is a hero for every archetype imaginable on both sides.
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Old September 15 2013, 12:57 PM   #1301
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

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I must admit, that while I have no problem with the casting of Affleck, I don't really care for the idea of pairing off a Superman at or near the start of his career with a weary and tired Batman, who's been at his job for a long time.
Actually I kind of like the idea of contrasting them like that. And really, MoS Superman in particular has so far fallen very short in terms of being a hero; he's achieved a few useful things, but only by following others' instructions, and there's a lot he could've done that he failed to do (like saving more bystanders or finding a better way to deal with Zod than just obediently doing what the villain told him to do). So this Kal-El needs some serious instruction in how to be a superhero. Given that, it makes sense to pair him up with a veteran who knows the game and is able to slap some sense into this guy and get him to start living up to his potential for a change.


It makes me wonder how long they plan to keep this incarnation of Batman around for. Affleck is 41 but looks younger while Cavill is in his late 20s, playing his early 30s.
Cavill is actually 30 now.

For comparison, Robert Downey, Jr. was 43 when he first played Iron Man, and will be 50 when The Avengers: Age of Ultron is released (though will be 48-49 during filming). Chris Hemsworth is currently 30 and Chris Evans is currently 32. Mark Ruffalo is now 45 and Scarlett Johansson is 28.

So no, I don't think it's essential for the co-stars in a superhero movie to be of equivalent age. I think WB wants Affleck to be the DC film universe's equivalent to Downey (in front of the camera, and Whedon behind, perhaps). And he's younger now than Downey was when he first played Tony Stark, so honestly these "He's too old" objections are rather bizarre to me.
I didn't say he was 'too old' (perhaps you're pointing to the general objections, rather than anything I've said, but if so, I wish you'd clarify that). I specifically said I had no problem with his casting and that he could pass for mid 30s.

I'm just not keen on the idea of a Batman and Superman who are a decade apart (and I'm talking about within the movie, I don't mean the actors' ages). No, I don't think it's 'essential' that they be the same age - I've just always imagined Bruce and Clark being separated by maybe a year or two. Affleck and Cavill could pass for being only a few years apart, I just don't like the idea of Batman (apparently) being past his best when he first meets Superman.

I don't really see the Avengers comparison as being similar; for one thing, the latter are a group and the age differences are less obvious than where there are only two people. Anyway, it's perhaps notable that the younger ones in Avengers - the 2 Chrisses and ScarJo - are the ones doing all the physical and tight spandex/muscle top stuff, while RDJ and Mark Ruffalo are either doing mo-cap or wearing a CGI suit. Ruffalo looked a little porky in Avengers - can't do that in a Batman suit, can you?!

In terms of the age thing, I don't think the RDJ/Tony Stark comparison holds up though, as Stark's suit and tech-know-how basically do all the work for him. Batman has no special powers and needs to be in physically great condition, which gets more difficult the older you get. Anyone who has seen Affleck in The Town will know that he can be in fantastic shape but whether or not an actor in his 50s could do so is open to question. Certainly, Hugh Jackman reckons it gets harder and harder to get into Wolverine-type condition every time.

I would've thought that the plan would be to use this movie to reboot and relaunch a series of solo Batman movies, without the need for an introduction or origin movie, but if Batman is meant to be tired and weary already, I wonder how much scope for solo movies there could be? Perhaps the end of this movie will see him reinvigorated and animated in his mission; I don't know.
Personally I'm glad we don't get another origin story. It's time superhero movies started to move beyond that trope.
Again, I didn't say I wanted another origin movie. I just said that I thought that this film would be a way of launching a new set of Batman films, without an origin story. My query was about whether introducing an older Batman would lead to more movies for him, not the absence of an origin story.
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Old September 15 2013, 02:05 PM   #1302
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
Honestly, as I've started getting in to the comics more, I've been amazed how similar the two companies' characters are.
That is probably because by now there is a hero for every archetype imaginable on both sides.
And part of the reason there's a hero for every archetype on both sides is because they've been actively copying each other for decades. The causality goes both ways.



Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
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And he's younger now than Downey was when he first played Tony Stark, so honestly these "He's too old" objections are rather bizarre to me.
I didn't say he was 'too old' (perhaps you're pointing to the general objections, rather than anything I've said, but if so, I wish you'd clarify that).
I just tend to take it for granted that any conversation on a public BBS thread with multiple participants and many non-participating readers is going to be in response to the group as a whole rather than any single poster. So you can assume that's the case unless I say otherwise.


I'm just not keen on the idea of a Batman and Superman who are a decade apart (and I'm talking about within the movie, I don't mean the actors' ages). No, I don't think it's 'essential' that they be the same age - I've just always imagined Bruce and Clark being separated by maybe a year or two. Affleck and Cavill could pass for being only a few years apart, I just don't like the idea of Batman (apparently) being past his best when he first meets Superman.
Well, sure, it's different from what we're used to, but to me, that's a reason to try it, not a reason to avoid it. We've seen plenty of stories about Superman and Batman as peers, now let's try doing one where they aren't, where one is a veteran and the other a novice. The whole reason for doing a story multiple times is so you can try new ways of doing it.

And like I said, it works very well for this particular interpretation of Superman, who's really been a lousy superhero so far and doesn't seem capable of doing a damn thing without a male authority figure to give him instructions. Of course, maybe that means he'd be better off without an older Batman telling him how to super, because the training wheels have to come off someday, but if any mentor could slap some sense into this guy and teach him to be self-sufficient, it's Batman. Think Batman Beyond and the Bruce-Terry dynamic.

Of course, that's probably wishful thinking on my part. I doubt Goyer and Snyder's script for the next film will be that honest about their failings of characterization in MoS.


Anyway, it's perhaps notable that the younger ones in Avengers - the 2 Chrisses and ScarJo - are the ones doing all the physical and tight spandex/muscle top stuff, while RDJ and Mark Ruffalo are either doing mo-cap or wearing a CGI suit. Ruffalo looked a little porky in Avengers - can't do that in a Batman suit, can you?!
I really doubt that Christian Bale did many of his own stunts. Heck, Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney could probably barely move inside those rubber monstrosities they wore. Adam West probably wore the Bat-suit with the most freedom of movement (maybe about on a par with the '40s serial actors), yet he was obviously stunt-doubled as a matter of course. So whether Affleck is up to the physical demands of being Batman is unlikely to be a major consideration, not unless they intend to show him fighting as Bruce Wayne -- which seems unlikely if his primary adversary is from Krypton.

Besides, people in their 40s are certainly capable of doing effective stunt work with the right training. Downey did a lot of action out of the suit in IM3. Jim Caviezel is 44 and he does fight scenes every week in Person of Interest. Jackie Chan was doing intensive martial-arts work in movies well into his early 50s, and that was after enduring multiple injuries in the course of his career. With the right training and care, Affleck's probably got a good 10-12 years left in him as an action star.


In terms of the age thing, I don't think the RDJ/Tony Stark comparison holds up though, as Stark's suit and tech-know-how basically do all the work for him. Batman has no special powers and needs to be in physically great condition, which gets more difficult the older you get.
I've explained how that's not a particularly important consideration in a movie, but even in in-story terms, there's far less difference between the two today than there was in the '60s or '70s. The modern Batman isn't wearing spandex, he's in a high-tech armor suit with a bunch of elaborate equipment built into it. It's not as heavily robotic as Stark's armor, but it's a lot closer in principle than it would've been a few decades ago.


Again, I didn't say I wanted another origin movie. I just said that I thought that this film would be a way of launching a new set of Batman films, without an origin story. My query was about whether introducing an older Batman would lead to more movies for him, not the absence of an origin story.
I don't see any reason why it couldn't. Like I said, you could easily get a good decade's worth of films out of Affleck, and I see no reason why Batman already being a veteran would preclude a series of films. I'm sure there have been multiple film series whose characters were already established veterans at the start of the series. Heck, Keaton's Batman was already established in his first film, though not for quite so long.

And that's part of what I was saying about not wanting another origin story. We've seen plenty of film series about heroes in the early years of their careers; now let's try something different.
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Old September 15 2013, 02:21 PM   #1303
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

^ Fair points. However, I should stress again, that my gripe is NOT with Affleck or his age; of course he could do action movies for years to come. My point is that if within this universe we first meet a weary and tired Bruce Wayne, then could the character within the film keep going for a decade? Being Batman doesn't involve stuntmen and SFX and is a lot more punishing than playing him. My problem is inter-movie, not behind the scenes. But I suppose willing suspension of disbelief can overcome that.

One of my main gripes about the use of a 'weary, tired' Batman is that they seem to be using The Dark Knight Returns as a point of reference for this film (eg the dialogue at Comic-con which Harry Lennix read). And I just think that the Superman/Batman dynamic there worked a lot better when you had two former friends who had been around the block and fallen out as they grew older and jaded. I'm less sure that it will work when you have one newbie and one vet, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
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Old September 15 2013, 04:01 PM   #1304
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
^ Fair points. However, I should stress again, that my gripe is NOT with Affleck or his age; of course he could do action movies for years to come. My point is that if within this universe we first meet a weary and tired Bruce Wayne, then could the character within the film keep going for a decade?
Whyever not? Just because the character starts that way, that doesn't mean it'll be his state throughout the entire series. After all, movies are about character arcs. The place where a character is at the start of a film is almost never the place they end up at the end of the film, let alone sequels. Jim Kirk was weary and jaded at the start of The Wrath of Khan, but by the end of it he had a new lease on life and kept going through five more films. Bruce Banner was weary and beaten down at the start of The Incredible Hulk, but by the end of it he'd gained a new self-mastery which carried over into Ruffalo's Banner in The Avengers. The Incredibles starts out with Bob hopeless and beaten down by life, but by the end of the movie he's begun a new career -- and while we haven't had a sequel yet, there certainly could've been a whole series of adventures to follow.

Really, a ton of movies have their heroes start out weary and defeated and end up revitalized and ready for more heroics. It's one of the more pervasive cinematic tropes. So I'm really puzzled that you'd see this as an issue at all.


One of my main gripes about the use of a 'weary, tired' Batman is that they seem to be using The Dark Knight Returns as a point of reference for this film (eg the dialogue at Comic-con which Harry Lennix read).
Now, that I do have a huge problem with, as I've said before. If they just copy TDKR's Batman, then I doubt that will work at all. I'm just saying that it wouldn't intrinsically be unviable, not in a more general sense.

Then again, even TDKR is a story about a weary, broken-down hero regaining a new lease on life and being revitalized by the end of the story -- although it entails said hero giving up his established heroic persona for a more behind-the-scenes role.


And I just think that the Superman/Batman dynamic there worked a lot better when you had two former friends who had been around the block and fallen out as they grew older and jaded. I'm less sure that it will work when you have one newbie and one vet, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
True, but, again, hopefully they're not just copying that, but rather simply using it as one source of inspiration for whatever new story they're constructing. There's no reason a story with the parameters they're using couldn't theoretically work. I have very little faith in Goyer and Snyder to make it work, but my concern is with the people executing the idea, not the nature of the idea itself. The success or failure of a story is never about the nature of the plot or premise, but about how well or poorly it's executed. Any idea can be handled well or handled badly.
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Old September 15 2013, 04:03 PM   #1305
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
I've just always imagined Bruce and Clark being separated by maybe a year or two.
Their ages vary but I always thought they were about 5 years apart with Bruce being older.
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