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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 15 2013, 12:55 AM   #46
OpenMaw
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
And we know he has access to Enterprise design specs: He knew where to blow holes through the refit...the refit that is an "Almost totally new Enterprise" that would have shit in different places from the version Khan is familiar with. And in all the studying the FUCKING PREFIX CODE never came up in his research?

This is why I don't worry about analyzing a Trek movie to much. I'll rip 'em apart if I do.
Damn, dude! You scary good at that.

*Raises shields and backs away slowly*
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Old September 15 2013, 12:57 AM   #47
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
I mean seriously are people really going to say that whatever plot holes are in STID are worse then an inability to count to f@#king six?
Oh, I dunno, forgetting that you have 70 odd magic blood men sitting right there whilst you risk life and limb chasing after Khan is pretty spectacular.
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Old September 15 2013, 01:00 AM   #48
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post

The "Three dimensional think" shit gets me everytime. Really, really? That's the big "trick"? Khan never flew in a play or dealt with submarines when he was a world leader, or for that matter none of his people? Or, how about the chance that mister superior intellect, might browse a book or two on basic Starfleet tactics or Starship operation? How the fuck was he getting anywhere is he couldn't think to command his ship in 3 dimensions?
Really, the history of human warfare has persisted in a three-dimensional theater. "Do we take the hill or march through the valley?" That sort of thing.

And beyond sub-maritime is aerial combat, which was was most likely the preferred form of battle in Khan's time. All three dimensions play a HUGE form everything to sortie deployment to the biggest furball dogfights.

On top of all that, as I've pointed out a bazillion-and-one time "space" is literally has "three dimensions" in its definition. To suggest Khan is completely oblivious to the "up and down" of celestial combat, is just plain dumb.

This is why I don't worry about analyzing a Trek movie to much. I'll rip 'em apart if I do.
This is exactly it.

Of the twelve films, the only one to really escape the clutches of the plot-hole monster is the first one. But even TMP is not without its scars.

The others are littered with plot holes and inconsistencies and logic blunders that can leave big red palm prints on the foreheads of those who aren't careful.

But so what? Despite some of the false rhetoric that seems to lurk, the Star Trek film franchise's primary priority has always been to entertain. And they all do ... even Nemesis.
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Old September 15 2013, 01:02 AM   #49
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
And we know he has access to Enterprise design specs: He knew where to blow holes through the refit...the refit that is an "Almost totally new Enterprise" that would have shit in different places from the version Khan is familiar with. And in all the studying the FUCKING PREFIX CODE never came up in his research?

This is why I don't worry about analyzing a Trek movie to much. I'll rip 'em apart if I do.
Damn, dude! You scary good at that.

*Raises shields and backs away slowly*
Like I say, don't get me into actually analyzing a Trek movie. I love Star Trek, but I can rip it's heart out if I get to overthinking it.

Another one: Starfleet is full of morons.

"You know Jim, you're right your crew is all trainees. hmmm. We lost contact with Reliant a few hours ago too. Might be connected to what is going on with Regula One. You head for Regula One, the Yorktown is two days away and will meet up with you there. Try to stay out of trouble till she arrives."

Now we have the first fight as is. Second fight: Khan rounds the planetoid and starring down the gun deck of two pissed of starships.

Instead...

Trainees? Fuck let 'em have their fun you go handle it.
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Old September 15 2013, 01:02 AM   #50
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

I can understand some disagreements on the perceived qualities of the various iterations of Trek. But it's starting to get out of hand. It feels like some folks are coming to this forum just for the chance to pick a fight.

I'm not a huge fan of Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise but I don't feel the need to rush into those forums and take a dump on something other people obviously enjoy.

It's starting to feel mean-spirited and I really think that is sad.
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Old September 15 2013, 01:10 AM   #51
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

A thing to remember too:

Star Trek has survived. Every time.

It survived after 3 seasons on NBC in the 60's. It survived TMP. It survived TNG. It survived TFF. It survived DS9, VOY and ENT. It survived NEM.

What people are complaining about now have what other fans have complained about before, and about the very same flavors of Trek many here love and despise.

Abrams version of Trek will last for its time, just as Roddenberry's, Bennett's and Berman's. A new person will take up the reigns and the argument will start up again.
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Old September 15 2013, 01:12 AM   #52
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
I mean seriously are people really going to say that whatever plot holes are in STID are worse then an inability to count to f@#king six?
Oh, I dunno, forgetting that you have 70 odd magic blood men sitting right there whilst you risk life and limb chasing after Khan is pretty spectacular.
Pretty big assumption to think they all have the inhanced healing ability.
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Old September 15 2013, 01:15 AM   #53
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
I mean seriously are people really going to say that whatever plot holes are in STID are worse then an inability to count to f@#king six?
Oh, I dunno, forgetting that you have 70 odd magic blood men sitting right there whilst you risk life and limb chasing after Khan is pretty spectacular.
Pretty big assumption to think they all have the inhanced healing ability.
Bingo. It took a couple hours (give or take) to revive the tribble. Assuming they all got it (which he doesn't know if they do or don't), how long after thawing before whatever it is in the blood if viable again? Bones didn't have the time, what he did have was a ready to use source on tap so long as Spock didn't kill him first.
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Old September 15 2013, 01:26 AM   #54
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post

Oh, I dunno, forgetting that you have 70 odd magic blood men sitting right there whilst you risk life and limb chasing after Khan is pretty spectacular.
Pretty big assumption to think they all have the inhanced healing ability.
Bingo. It took a couple hours (give or take) to revive the tribble. Assuming they all got it (which he doesn't know if they do or don't), how long after thawing before whatever it is in the blood if viable again? Bones didn't have the time, what he did have was a ready to use source on tap so long as Spock didn't kill him first.
More than that he stated that he did not know how to defrost the guys in cryotubes. Bones would never have taken chances and killed one of them.
Just one of many examples where NuTrek is perfectly in line with GoodOl'Trek by the way
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Old September 15 2013, 02:51 AM   #55
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

STID Plot holes the worst?
  • Reliant crew can't tell planets apart
  • Ceti Eels make one "susceptible to suggestion"...but only to Khan's suggestions
  • Manhatten Project-esque Genesis Project is endangered and Kirk putters to the rescue at...warp 5
  • Manhatten Project-esque Genesis Project is endangered, Kirk wonders who's "taking Genesis" and when he encounters a starship that isn't behaving normally he doesn't act suspicious
  • Five-digit prefix code where no two numbers can be repeated...worst encryption ever
  • "They put creatures in our bodies to control our minds," "You're safe now," WHAT? Kirk isn't the only one who's gone senile
  • "Hours would seem like days"...so much for the superior intellect

Need I continue?
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Old September 15 2013, 02:56 AM   #56
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
And WOK was a movie that wouldn't have happened had Chekov of Terrell stopped for directions. Or, you know, counted to six and got stuck on five.
They're men what do you expect?

As far as I'm concerned TWOK and every other Star Trek movie barring TMP was loaded with plotholes. However Khan not killing Kirk immediately was not one of them. The premise in TWOK was that Khan had become unhinged. He unreasonably wanted revenge on Kirk and sure he wanted to kill Kirk when that was his only option but when the opportunity arose he decided to make Kirk suffer. Not a plothole.
Why didn't the Borg queen convert Picard as soon as she could in FC? She also wanted to make him suffer/see the light for a bit.

I could list at laest 20 plotholes from each Star Trek movie, or any Star Wars movie, Avengers movie if I knew/loved the background well enough.
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Old September 15 2013, 03:26 AM   #57
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Guilty admission: when I stumbled on this thread, I thought it was a typo. I honestly thought the title was supposed to read 'unraveled' or 'revealed'. Thus I was hoping for enlightenment, having posted several concerns about the events of STiD elsewhere in this forum.

IMO we as franchise fans nitpick more than general audiences. It's our culture. Some of my nitpicks have been addressed by the wisdom of others here, other questions still bother me. BUT back to the OP, are the plot holes 'unrivaled'?

No. Not even close. Sure the movie has it's share of head-scratchers as do most of the films, but at some point we have to sit back and remember that this is science fiction. It's all a plot hole.
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Old September 15 2013, 03:57 AM   #58
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Guilty admission: when I stumbled on this thread, I thought it was a typo. I honestly thought the title was supposed to read 'unraveled' or 'revealed'. Thus I was hoping for enlightenment, having posted several concerns about the events of STiD elsewhere in this forum.
I could dump part of a letter I wrote to SFDebris regarding STiD's plot holes/stupidity if you want.
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Old September 15 2013, 06:27 AM   #59
OpenMaw
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

bullethead wrote: View Post
I could dump part of a letter I wrote to SFDebris regarding STiD's plot holes/stupidity if you want.
I'd love to read that.
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Old September 15 2013, 08:48 AM   #60
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

BillJ wrote: View Post
I can understand some disagreements on the perceived qualities of the various iterations of Trek. But it's starting to get out of hand. It feels like some folks are coming to this forum just for the chance to pick a fight.

I'm not a huge fan of Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise but I don't feel the need to rush into those forums and take a dump on something other people obviously enjoy.

It's starting to feel mean-spirited and I really think that is sad.
The problem is that every Star Trek fan -- irrespective of what series he likes -- watches the movies. The reason why this STID division is bigger than most is because it ain't a clash of different ST, it's a clash of quality or even the Star Wars vs Star Trek argument.

The first group appears rather happy with what is a rather average, at best, movie. While the second group sees STID for what it is and is one more Star Trek film running on vapours. The same kind of vapours which had Nemisis, VOY and ENT limping along.

I think the biggest point of contention is that STID suffers from this post-millennial malaise where films pass muster with alright characters, a threadbare plot and some decent action scenes. But older films have done such things in a far better way and Star Trek is not supposed to be Star Wars. There is something more fundamentally amiss with STID which is far bigger than the potential problem being a different series, a different cast or something.

Finally to SeerSGB. You are absolutely right about the fact that if you think really hard you can rip any Trek film to pieces and find like several or so major plot holes. But why not tally up all the plotholes in STID, I bet the final number would be greater than either Star Trek V, Insurrection or Nemesis!
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