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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 14 2013, 10:27 PM   #1
Mountie1988
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STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Well, you guys have successfully pointed out all what is wrong with Into Darkness and therefore why it is the worst of all Star Trek movies.
But here's the thing: STID is not the first ST movie with major plot holes, so is it really worse than its predecessors? We'll see

This thread is dedicated to all the screw-ups in previous Star Trek movies, just to relativize STID's script.

Let's begin with two holy cows...

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Kirk violates regulations and refuses to raise shields and thus fails to protect his crew of training cadets.

Star Trek: First Contact
The TNG crew monitors the Romulan Neutral Zone, then agrees to disobey orders and get involved with the Borg after the battle at 001 already has started, but manages to arrive in time while it still lasts. That's what I call Transwarp Drive Baby.

First Contact Again
The Borg first fly to Earth, then go back in time. Why not the other way round without the Federation noticing?

And First Contact One More Time
Enslave mankind when it was most vulnerable. 21st century? Really? I don't think Mitochondrial Eve would have been up to the fight (Then again, she was half Cylon...)
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Old September 14 2013, 10:30 PM   #2
CorporalClegg
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Too many to list...
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Old September 14 2013, 10:34 PM   #3
BillJ
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Don't forget Khan beaming up Genesis but not beaming up Kirk!
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Old September 14 2013, 11:11 PM   #4
Ln X
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Don't forget Khan beaming up Genesis but not beaming up Kirk!
I thought Khan wanted to punish Kirk? Seems perfectly straight forward to me.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:11 PM   #5
Belz...
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Don't forget Khan beaming up Genesis but not beaming up Kirk!
Oh, but he just wished to go on... hurting him.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:15 PM   #6
Ln X
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Belz... wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Don't forget Khan beaming up Genesis but not beaming up Kirk!
Oh, but he just wished to go on... hurting him.
Kirk buried alive in a dead planet should do the trick, naturally Khan wish he could do more but he settled for that.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:23 PM   #7
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Ln X wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Don't forget Khan beaming up Genesis but not beaming up Kirk!
Oh, but he just wished to go on... hurting him.
Kirk buried alive in a dead planet should do the trick, naturally Khan wish he could do more but he settled for that.
But the point is, Khan didn't have to settle for that. There was absolutely no reason he couldn't beam up Kirk as he had just beamed up Genesis fifteen-seconds earlier.

Khan didn't beam up Kirk because it would've stopped the movie dead in its tracks by having Khan snap Kirk's neck.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:26 PM   #8
CorporalClegg
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Ln X wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Don't forget Khan beaming up Genesis but not beaming up Kirk!
Oh, but he just wished to go on... hurting him.
Kirk buried alive in a dead planet should do the trick, naturally Khan wish he could do more but he settled for that.
BS.

That whole sequence is Khan grasping at straws, and that's after you include all the assumptions on his part.

Beaming Kirk up and water boarding (or whatever) him for the rest of his life would be a far worse fate. Not to mention an endless source of joy for Khan himself.

The whole planet Regula sequence is pretty much a showcase for Khan's idiocy.

But all of that isn't important. Does it make for great dram? Yes. Is it "intellectual"? Not even a little.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:26 PM   #9
OpenMaw
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Khan didn't beam up Kirk because it would've stopped the movie dead in its tracks by having Khan snap Kirk's neck.
Khan didn't want to "snap Kirk's neck" he wanted to make Kirk suffer. With the Enterprise destroyed, Kirk would be condemned to isolation just as Khan was. All Khan had to do was ignore him. Just as Kirk had done to him before. Khan explains it very clearly in his words to Kirk. It's not a plothole.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:27 PM   #10
Ln X
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

BillJ wrote: View Post
But the point is, Khan didn't have to settle for that. There was absolutely no reason he couldn't beam up Kirk as he had just beamed up Genesis fifteen-seconds earlier.

Khan didn't beam up Kirk because it would've stopped the movie dead in its tracks by having Khan snap Kirk's neck.
Khan made a choice.

Was it beam up Kirk and kill right there and then, or have Kirk trapped forever more?

If I were feeling as vengeful as Khan I would leave Kirk on that planet. The point is Khan is not a totally ruthless villain, vengeance is Khan's weakness and because Khan made it personal we have a much better movie for it.

This is not a plot hole but simply questioning Khan's motives.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:29 PM   #11
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Khan didn't beam up Kirk because it would've stopped the movie dead in its tracks by having Khan snap Kirk's neck.
Khan didn't want to "snap Kirk's neck" he wanted to make Kirk suffer. With the Enterprise destroyed, Kirk would be condemned to isolation just as Khan was. All Khan had to do was ignore him. Just as Kirk had done to him before. Khan explains it very clearly in his words to Kirk. It's not a plothole.
Khan was just screaming "kill him!" to Chekov and Terrell right before beaming up Genesis. My god, I seriously can't believe what I'm reading.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:31 PM   #12
BillJ
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Ln X wrote: View Post

Khan made a choice.

Was it beam up Kirk and kill right there and then, or have Kirk trapped forever more?

If I were feeling as vengeful as Khan I would leave Kirk on that planet. The point is Khan is not a totally ruthless villain, vengeance is Khan's weakness and because Khan made it personal we have a much better movie for it.

This is not a plot hole but simply questioning Khan's motives.
It is a massive plot-hole. MASSIVE. He spent the whole movie wanting to kill Kirk right up to beaming up Genesis and then just changed his mind? I call BULLSHIT.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:33 PM   #13
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Dont forget the Reliant somehow going to the wrong planet at the start. If Ceti Alpha VI exploded, leaving only five planets in the system, how did they ever mistake the fifth planet for the sixth which doesn't even exist any more??
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Old September 14 2013, 11:40 PM   #14
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Let me put it to you this way: Star Trek into Darkness makes you question why people are doing things and why don't they take obvious alternatives way more than most of the other Trek movies.
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Old September 14 2013, 11:46 PM   #15
BillJ
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Re: STID's plot holes unrivaled?

bullethead wrote: View Post
Let me put it to you this way: Star Trek into Darkness makes you question why people are doing things and why don't they take obvious alternatives way more than most of the other Trek movies.
No it really doesn't.
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