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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 14 2013, 04:27 PM   #61
Kelthaz
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Do you honestly think 99% of viewers even noticed or cared about the physics issues of the Enterprise falling to Earth or whether other Starfleet ships came out to fight?
The physics? No. But a 1 on 1 ship battle right on Earth's doorstep without any intervention from StarFleet is a pretty big plothole. Especially after the entire movie is spent telling us how Earth is gearing up for war with the Klingons and that should include some defense for your home planet.

Movies should make sense and character actions should be believable.
You hold all the other Trek films, TV shows, books, etc. that employ the same dramatic tactic (which is all that is) to the same high standard, right? Because, if so, that's a lot of Trek history --including some great films, episodes, and novels-- that you've just labeled as having an unrecoverable flaw.

I know the usual suspects are now going to whine about how they should be able to complain about a flaw in STiD without having to compare it to examples of the same flaws in prior Trek and blah blah blah, but I don't care.
I'm not sure why you're jumping to the conclusion that because I pointed out a flaw in the film that I therefore consider that flaw an unrecoverable flaw that ruins the film. Yes, the "only ship in range" flaw exists in quite a bit of prior Trek and I'm not giving those shows a free pass. Nor am I claiming that this flaw ruins the film. Take my post at face value and don't read so much into it. I had problems with the film, but I rather liked Into Darkness.

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.
Uh, no. People complained about that flaw quite a bit in Generations, TMP, Best of Both Worlds, and lots more. Stop treating everyone who points out a flaw in this film as an obsessed nerd who holds the rest of Star Trek up on a pedestal. As I said to Locutus, stop reading so much into each individual post and take people at face value.
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Old September 14 2013, 05:27 PM   #62
OpenMaw
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Uh, no. People complained about that flaw quite a bit in Generations, TMP, Best of Both Worlds, and lots more. Stop treating everyone who points out a flaw in this film as an obsessed nerd who holds the rest of Star Trek up on a pedestal. As I said to Locutus, stop reading so much into each individual post and take people at face value.
You're my new favorite person for this.
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Old September 14 2013, 05:42 PM   #63
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
I'm not sure why you're jumping to the conclusion that because I pointed out a flaw in the film that I therefore consider that flaw an unrecoverable flaw that ruins the film. Yes, the "only ship in range" flaw exists in quite a bit of prior Trek and I'm not giving those shows a free pass. Nor am I claiming that this flaw ruins the film. Take my post at face value and don't read so much into it. I had problems with the film, but I rather liked Into Darkness.
Well, the comments from this and the Orci thread below didn't exactly seem like glowing reviews, so I inferred that you weren't the biggest fan. However, I only mentioned that you seemed to consider these particular flaws a major issue, possibly a dealbreaker, not that you didn't enjoy anything about the films.

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
So what you're saying is that Abrams' Trek films aren't broken because you like them? Perhaps some of us don't feel that they reached their goal of being "exciting action-adventure movies" and thus claim they're broken films because they didn't achieve their goal?
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Yes, because whether or not a franchise is broken is an opinion. Star Trek from a financial point of view obviously isn't broken (not as great as hoped for, but definitely not broken), but from a creative point of view it is to certain people.
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Movies should make sense and character actions should be believable.
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Old September 14 2013, 05:46 PM   #64
M'Sharak
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Spacious argument.
If it's so spacious, does it mean there is room for different opinions?
Good - someone else caught that besides me.
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Old September 14 2013, 05:48 PM   #65
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Spacious argument.
If it's so spacious, does it mean there is room for different opinions?
Good - someone else caught that besides me.
Of course people can offer different opinions. And maybe I didn't use the right word.

However, when I stated my opinion about the climax, the pacing, and basic story telling, I cited examples. No one has offered an opinion different to my own with anything even approaching that.
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Old September 14 2013, 06:53 PM   #66
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
1. Vengeance jamming all comm channels to Earth, but the one to New Vulcan is directed away from Earth so gets through, Marcus/Khan deem it not worthy of attention.

2. Marcus is the head of Starfleet, and transmitted a stand-down signal to Starbase 1 and Luna Colony to ensure no one goes near them.

3. Marcus/Khan transmit a harzard warning hail that orders every available ship out of the hazard area immediately, scans from said ships show a debris field, they comply.

4. All warp signatures and hull profiles in the area are Starfleet, the Admirals flagship and Starfleets flagship, no one is sure what to do and await orders.

5. Marcus, before leaving the Sol system, ordered the fleet to a point nearer Klingon space. This when added to launching Vengeance, means Starfleet presumes a Klingon attack and one lightyears off, caught very off guard when both return to Sol.

6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.
Marcus could have also already had the Enterprise and Kirk flagged as rogues. Sends the rest of the fleet on a wild goose chase to find them while he goes to deal with it personally.
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Old September 14 2013, 07:03 PM   #67
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
1. Vengeance jamming all comm channels to Earth, but the one to New Vulcan is directed away from Earth so gets through, Marcus/Khan deem it not worthy of attention.

2. Marcus is the head of Starfleet, and transmitted a stand-down signal to Starbase 1 and Luna Colony to ensure no one goes near them.

3. Marcus/Khan transmit a harzard warning hail that orders every available ship out of the hazard area immediately, scans from said ships show a debris field, they comply.

4. All warp signatures and hull profiles in the area are Starfleet, the Admirals flagship and Starfleets flagship, no one is sure what to do and await orders.

5. Marcus, before leaving the Sol system, ordered the fleet to a point nearer Klingon space. This when added to launching Vengeance, means Starfleet presumes a Klingon attack and one lightyears off, caught very off guard when both return to Sol.

6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.
Marcus could have also already had the Enterprise and Kirk flagged as rogues. Sends the rest of the fleet on a wild goose chase to find them while he goes to deal with it personally.
7 good reasons. And in what, two hours?
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Old September 14 2013, 07:08 PM   #68
Set Harth
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Kelthaz wrote:
Best of Both Worlds, and lots more
I take it you weren't impressed with Mars Defense?
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Old September 14 2013, 07:11 PM   #69
Chemahkuu
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote:
Best of Both Worlds, and lots more
I take it you weren't impressed with Mars Defense?
I still want to know whose idea it was to put warp nacelles on Typhoon class submarines and launch them into space.

Hoping the Borg would die of confusion from LOLbombs?
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Old September 14 2013, 07:53 PM   #70
SeerSGB
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote:
Best of Both Worlds, and lots more
I take it you weren't impressed with Mars Defense?
I still want to know whose idea it was to put warp nacelles on Typhoon class submarines and launch them into space.

Hoping the Borg would die of confusion from LOLbombs?
I'm a bastard: first time I saw that scene in BoBW, I wasn't thinking "Wow the Borg are a serious threat", I started laughing. It's just the way they roll through, pow, pow, pow, and don't stop. Sort of "Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you"
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Old September 14 2013, 07:56 PM   #71
Chemahkuu
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Yeah, those are the lamest defences I've ever seen, it was just hilarious after the Battle of Wolf 359 that they just sent out 3 glorified satellites with motors.
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Old September 14 2013, 09:44 PM   #72
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Guys, believe it or not, but space is really really big! Even between Earth and its Moon, such a vast distance, you simply do not 'see' something if you're not actually looking for it.

Sure one may say: 'with all this sophisticated technology they should have gotten some sensor readings' but then again, Vengeance jammed all of Enterprise's signals with Anti-Leptons or whatever

Really, this movie has some more serious problems than the undetected battle in Earth's gravity field
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Old September 14 2013, 09:53 PM   #73
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Mountie1988 wrote: View Post

Really, this movie has some more serious problems than the undetected battle in Earth's gravity field
I know. No Star Trek fan should have to put up with a fun and exciting movie. Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.
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Old September 14 2013, 10:24 PM   #74
Kelthaz
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

BillJ wrote: View Post
Mountie1988 wrote: View Post

Really, this movie has some more serious problems than the undetected battle in Earth's gravity field
I know. No Star Trek fan should have to put up with a fun and exciting movie. Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.
Oh, please.
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Old September 14 2013, 10:27 PM   #75
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Re: Re-writing the climax of STiD

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Mountie1988 wrote: View Post

Really, this movie has some more serious problems than the undetected battle in Earth's gravity field
I know. No Star Trek fan should have to put up with a fun and exciting movie. Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.
Oh, please.
That's the type of response one should expect when they say the movie has problems yet doesn't list any of them.
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