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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old September 12 2013, 06:47 PM   #196
Maurice
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

If you read the RFP forums you quickly discover that various effects houses had particular sets of kits they used over and over again for detailing on models, and you can see dozens of boxes of the same kits in photos of the shop. Given that, it's utterly unsurprising you'd see some of the same parts on models for different films.
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Old September 12 2013, 11:05 PM   #197
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

I'm trying to decide if the fact that it's an engine part changes what that bay "really" is...
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Old September 13 2013, 12:53 AM   #198
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Apologies for the double posting, but here's a link to a collage of reference images of the model (taken by John Eaves during its Lakota state) along with the newly discovered part.



Clearly there were some modifications, but indeed it most certainly looks to be it. They added some embellishments, and it looks like they built the box that receives the mounting arm onto the flat, wider part.

Perhaps most interestingly, left off the cylinder part that screamed engine.

Whew. That was close.
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Old September 13 2013, 07:03 AM   #199
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

The photo I posted shows the part in question but it has other parts glommed onto it in that example.
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Old September 13 2013, 02:20 PM   #200
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Y'know, the more I look at this, the more un-Starfleet this detailing looks. I really am starting to expect to see the Tantive IV locked down in there. ILM just overgreebled the shit out of this thing - a tremendous waste of open space.
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Old September 13 2013, 06:48 PM   #201
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

^ In fairness, they did much the same thing to the Reliant.
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Old September 13 2013, 07:06 PM   #202
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Y'know, the more I look at this, the more un-Starfleet this detailing looks. I really am starting to expect to see the Tantive IV locked down in there. ILM just overgreebled the shit out of this thing - a tremendous waste of open space.
Stop looking at it!
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Old September 13 2013, 08:30 PM   #203
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

I...can't...It's like a train wreck!
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Old September 14 2013, 04:35 AM   #204
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Leave my poor Pregnant Guppy alone!

Guys, I've reached an impasse with the warp core and really need your help. I've concocted five options that I'd like your opinions on - which do you think is the most likely/logical?

Option One, the traditional/deflection crystal placed version:

This version has a warp core that basically works just like the TMP intermix chamber, although I haven't shown the reactor that I think would "actually" exist at the bottom of the chamber.

Option Two, the "Crazy Eddie," which is how I interpreted his suggestion (thanks, pal):

This one puts a short, vertical reactor core from the top of the hump to the ventral, and would have power transfer conduits branching directly into the pylons, as well (possibly) as one going up to the deflection crystals.

Option Three, the "Sternbach," which basically follows TNG-onward core placement thought:

This one actually makes the chasm be directly related to the core functions - potentially containing the reactor itself. The PTC arrangement needs exploring (and I haven't got one going up to the impulse engines in this sample.)

Option Four, another take on the "Crazy Eddie" but this time putting the core horizontally:

This has the benefit of allowing the core to be slightly larger, and potentially allowing the engine core to be ejected in the "humpback" assembly.

Option Five, another take on Option One:

This is basically the TNG-friendly version of Option One; the warp core is entirely contained in the secondary hull, as well as roughly equal in height, with a PTC connecting to the impulse engines and to the nacelle pylons.

Any of these (except for as noted with V1/V5) could work with either the TMP style reactor or the TNG style reactor, IMO. I just read in the other thread where 137th Gebring suggested that the ship may've had two warp cores/intermix shafts, indicated by the dual deflection crystals. This is a concept I'd not considered before, but could work as an interpretation of Option One.

So, what does everyone think? Are there any placement options I've missed?
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Old September 14 2013, 04:00 PM   #205
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

When I did some deck plans, I basically used Option 5, with the neck full of deuterium tankage. I think One and Five both work well, and I could easily see 5 being a 'modernized' version of One, using the same space but cutting it off at the saucer. That's if you want to go traditional; the horizontal 'Crazy Eddie' is very creative and I kind of like it given how different it is. There's no reason a warp core has to be vertical, after all.
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Old September 14 2013, 05:07 PM   #206
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

1 and 5 seems more consistent in application if you're trying to keep it similar to the Constitutions, IMHO. Also, the Hathaway in TNG appeared to have only a single warp core in a vertical orientation despite everything being doubled up on the Constellations.

But given how flat the mid-to-stern section is on the Excelsior's engineering hull, what if the warp core was horizontal in the engineering hull and then branched up into the hump? That way the top of the core is still pointing forward toward the front/impulse engines.
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Old September 14 2013, 06:20 PM   #207
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

The Librarian wrote: View Post
When I did some deck plans, I basically used Option 5, with the neck full of deuterium tankage. I think One and Five both work well, and I could easily see 5 being a 'modernized' version of One, using the same space but cutting it off at the saucer. That's if you want to go traditional; the horizontal 'Crazy Eddie' is very creative and I kind of like it given how different it is. There's no reason a warp core has to be vertical, after all.
I'm glad you bring up the neck. I've always struggled to assign a function to the grill around it, which also appears in lesser form where the pylon humpback meets the spine of the engineering hull. It seems like it would perform some heat dissipation function - which to me points towards some major heat-generating equipment being in the neck, and some of lesser extent in the humpback.

On the other hand, maybe it's not radiators, maybe it's some sort of wacky Starfleet experiment in flexible hull connections? But then, how do you explain its presence on the Ambassador class?

The one problem with the horizontal core in the humpback, to me, is that you're going to have to pump the matter and antimatter fairly far to get it there... unless the pod contains highly concentrated small bottles.

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
1 and 5 seems more consistent in application if you're trying to keep it similar to the Constitutions, IMHO. Also, the Hathaway in TNG appeared to have only a single warp core in a vertical orientation despite everything being doubled up on the Constellations.
That's where I keep drifting. And I was just thinking that the Constellation core might be what the Excelsior core "really" looked like.

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
But given how flat the mid-to-stern section is on the Excelsior's engineering hull, what if the warp core was horizontal in the engineering hull and then branched up into the hump? That way the top of the core is still pointing forward toward the front/impulse engines.
Great suggestion! I therefore give you...

Option Six.


While I was working on that, I came up with a second version of Option 3 that seems a little less convoluted:


I'm still fairly undecided.
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Old September 15 2013, 03:04 AM   #208
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

I personally think it's some sort of sensor, possibly connected to the advanced warp drive. While the grill does sort of look like a terrestrial radiator, its ridged nature would actually make it a pretty horrible radiator in space because the ridges would just radiate heat onto each other. The Ambassador retained it in a smaller form, and presumably by the time the Galaxy came around it was once again unnecessary.

Moving antimatter around would be inconvenient for the horizontal core, unless it's right there in the flat part directly underneath the hump. There's no particular reason it has to be down in the very bottom of the ship, especially since the cut-in takes up so much space (which is why I don't think the deuterium tank is down there either). The matter is less of a problem since it doesn't vaporize the entire ship if something goes wrong and pumping around cryogenic fluids is a relatively mild inconvenience.
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Old September 15 2013, 04:15 AM   #209
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Personally, I prefer option 6 with the long horizontal warp core. No specific reason, though.

As for the neck grill, keep in mind that the same feature is repeated in the warp nacelles and under the hump. I can understand the artistic reasons for it, tying the entire design together, but I'm at a loss for assigning a practical reason for it.
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Old September 15 2013, 12:31 PM   #210
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

I'd go for Option 4. The humpback has qualities of the deuterium tanks envisioned for the Enterprise-D, though I'd imagine the antimatter pods to be located in the bow part of the humpback.

Reason for this speculation is that during a head-on confrontation / attack the neck of the Excelsior, the saucer hull and the protruding impulse engine section would probably serve as a good mechanical shield protecting such antimatter pods.

Another reason is the obvious design similarity to the engine pod of the Oberth Class. While I believe we are essentially looking at a pre-TOS design with the Oberth, I have no reason to doubt that the humpback on its engineering pod is a mid-23rd Century upgrade (or a genuine mid-23rd Century design for those that disagree with my theory).

But regardless, I think any theory needs to be compatible with this screenshot from ST III, and the images we could see before (didn't we see part of a vertical intermix shaft?)

Bob

P.S.

The TOS references in "The Apple" and "The Savage Curtain" only suggested the discarding of the warp nacelles while in "That Which Survives" the ejection of the "engineering core" in the engineering hull seemed to be the solution if all else failed.

On the Excelsior it would appear you could do both if the necessity ever arose. You jettison the humpback matter-antimatter module and/or the warp nacelles.
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; September 15 2013 at 12:54 PM.
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