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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old September 9 2013, 06:57 PM   #211
Dukhat
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
However, if the saucer module (back to the original intention of this thread) was merely a planet landing capable mission module we might be looking at the possibility that the main bridge was located within the engineering pod.
I'm fairly certain that the dome in the center of the saucer is supposed to be the bridge, just like every other known Starfleet starship.

But I believe "canon" demands we come up with a rationalization for the scene from "The Naked Now".
The bridge airlock was a script necessity, nothing more.
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Old September 12 2013, 01:00 AM   #212
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
The original VFX model (Grissom) had an overall length of 120 meters according to its creators. That it was "upscaled" for TNG is the logical conclusion of cross-sections established during TNG.
But even if we approached the size in the Thermian way, than this would be at least proof it was "downscaled".
While watching "The Naked Now" I noticed this interesting scaling bit. The Tchaikovsky(sp) is behind the E-D in this shot so that makes this particular TNG Grissom fairly big. I wonder if the TNG New FX version did the same thing?

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Old September 12 2013, 09:31 AM   #213
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Good catch! Yes, TNG-R did the same thing, thus we are indeed looking at a Tsiolkovsky far bigger than just 120 meters.

I think that tells us that right from the start of TNG they went for the bigger version.

Did we have any details about the size of this stellar fragment in the episode?
With a rough length same as the small Grissom the E-D could have probably just used phasers to vaporize it?

Bob
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Old September 12 2013, 03:54 PM   #214
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Damn. Good find. The D is a great resource since her sizing was so well planned out, and Ten-Forward aside, works pretty well. In a way, that image almost invalidates the scale diagram made for TNG production entirely.

I wonder, though, if this is the only instance on TNG and later where the Oberth is thus scaled?
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Old September 13 2013, 07:57 AM   #215
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

It's just a personal preference, but...
I've always liked the Constellation Class,
Always thought of it as being like a 4WD,
You may not use it often, but it's there if you need it.
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Old September 13 2013, 06:26 PM   #216
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
The original VFX model (Grissom) had an overall length of 120 meters according to its creators. That it was "upscaled" for TNG is the logical conclusion of cross-sections established during TNG.
But even if we approached the size in the Thermian way, than this would be at least proof it was "downscaled".
While watching "The Naked Now" I noticed this interesting scaling bit. The Tchaikovsky(sp) is behind the E-D in this shot so that makes this particular TNG Grissom fairly big. I wonder if the TNG New FX version did the same thing?

The remastered shot is pretty close in terms of scale.
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Old September 13 2013, 07:31 PM   #217
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

At that scale, it would make the Tsiolkovsky about as large as the Constitution class, which was what Praetor extrapolated by using the later-added Connie docking port decal as scale. I still don't think the ship was supposed to be that large however; nor do I think it was ever supposed to be as small as 120 meters.
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Old September 14 2013, 04:18 AM   #218
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

I think part of the beauty of Reverend's 150 meter size is the compromise of it. She's small enough to still be a good degree smaller than the Enterprise, but is not so implausibly tiny. I still struggle a bit with fitting 80 people in her, though.

I went through my files, and found that long ago I had began a revamp of the MSD I helped LCARS24 do at the 150 meter size.



One of the problems with the 120 meter size is how inflexible it makes deck placement; the saucer gives you exactly room for two decks plus the dome, and the horizontal strut below isn't quite tall enough to be a full deck. At the 150 meter size, at least, you have wiggle room in the saucer, can get a full deck out of the horizontal strut, and have wiggle room in the pod, too.

In my mind, the Oberth probably initially mounted a highly automated reactor in the secondary hull, later replaced in more modern units by a warp core. Alternatively, the small area behind the saucer could have mounted a reactor, and the pod could have remained independent until the restrictions forced 24th century engineers to put a warp core down there.

The advantage of the larger ship, of course, is that the pylons are bigger and actually allow for better travel between the sections. Plus, the 80 people wouldn't seem so cramped. When I found the above, I also found a version of it I had began scaling to the wrecked Vico model, basically doubling the decks.

I think overall, while "The Naked Now," the docking port decal, and the wrecked Vico point us to a larger ship, overall evidence - particularly the ship seen in "Generations" pushes us back down to the smaller size bracket. Stretching it to 150, though not the original intention, allows us the wiggle room we need to make her plausible.
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Old September 14 2013, 04:30 AM   #219
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

You could just do yourself a favor and imagine there are actually TWO completely different starships that just happen to look very similar and this is all just a cosmic coincidence.
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Old September 14 2013, 05:02 AM   #220
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Would that be the "Klingon Method"? Or the "Bird of Prey Paradigm"?

I honestly think 150 meters works just dandy.
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Old September 14 2013, 10:10 PM   #221
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
You could just do yourself a favor and imagine there are actually TWO completely different starships that just happen to look very similar and this is all just a cosmic coincidence.
Yeah....no.
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Old September 14 2013, 10:52 PM   #222
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

The hatch that was blown on the Tsiolkovskiy bridge was the emergency escape hatch, not a airlock.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/SS_K...ency_hatch.jpg
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Old September 15 2013, 05:06 PM   #223
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

I cam across a new image I hadn't seen before:



Perhaps mostly interesting because it gives a fairly good luck at the structure behind the saucer. Also interesting to note that the gray recess on top of the saucer is not corrugated as some have thought, just flat.
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Old September 15 2013, 06:58 PM   #224
Robert Comsol
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Great find! Fascinating! Notice that the alleged "windows" are definitely rectangular and also the portholes are square!

Even the TOS Enterprise had at least circular portholes and after that it's all windows with rounded ends. Looks like the pre-TOS design theory just got new fuel.

The structure behind the saucer (fusion reactors?) looks odd. Almost as if the cover plate was missing but this could just as well be a typical ILM design touch (think Y-wing fighter).

Bob
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Old September 15 2013, 10:29 PM   #225
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

It almost looks like twin deflection crystals (or warp field stabilizers if you accept the ENT retcon )
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