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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 210 56.76%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 61 16.49%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 39 10.54%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 53 14.32%
I don't know. 7 1.89%
Voters: 370. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 13 2013, 06:14 PM   #121
BillJ
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I hate Section 31.
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Old September 13 2013, 06:24 PM   #122
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Don't get me wrong, overall liked DS9. It showed a unique side of Starfleet and how everyone didn't get along in the galaxy like TNG would have you believe (more or less) but their "End justifies the means" attitude shifted TNG's moral base attitude (which was probably their goal to began with).
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Old September 13 2013, 07:32 PM   #123
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I don't think they did anything to suggest that that approach was beyond...well, reproach.

It's Sisko's choice, but one thing I like about the episode is that they hold back on any suggestion that it is obviously the "right" choice.

Indeed, it may be that only history will be able to cast any judgment on that, much like Janeway's decision to send Voyager home ahead of schedule regardless of the consequences to the timeline.
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Old September 13 2013, 07:38 PM   #124
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

^That's my point, it was the obvious/logical choice, and not the "right" choice.
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Old September 13 2013, 07:43 PM   #125
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
^That's my point, it was the obvious/logical choice, and not the "right" choice.
But how is it the right choice just to curl up and die or wait for a miracle?
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Old September 13 2013, 07:45 PM   #126
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Don't get me wrong, overall liked DS9. It showed a unique side of Starfleet and how everyone didn't get along in the galaxy like TNG would have you believe (more or less) but their "End justifies the means" attitude shifted TNG's moral base attitude (which was probably their goal to began with).
And which, honestly, was probably not a bad thing--and closer to the sometimes painful choices and more complicated morality of the original STAR TREK.

Remembering Kirk deciding to "bend" the Prime Directive by arming the locals in a "A Private Little War"--or letting Edith Keeler get hit by a truck in "City on Edge of Forever"--or even seducing Lenore Karidian in order to expose her father's atrocities?

One could argue that DS9 was just getting back to the less "utopian" morality of TOS where Starfleet captains couldn't always keep their hands clean.
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Old September 13 2013, 08:26 PM   #127
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
^That's my point, it was the obvious/logical choice, and not the "right" choice.
But how is it the right choice just to curl up and die or wait for a miracle?
If Sisko's decision leads to a war with the Romulans that proves more devastating than the Dominion War, would it still have been the "right" choice?

In any case, since I believe the term "right" involves morality and non-benevolent willful deception compromises morality, IMO it's impossible for a choice involving non-benevolent willful deception to be "right".
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Old September 13 2013, 08:31 PM   #128
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

DonIago wrote: View Post

If Sisko's decision leads to a war with the Romulans that proves more devastating than the Dominion War, would it still have been the "right" choice?
How can a war with a technologically equal race end up being more devastating than losing the Dominion war and having thousands of Jem'Hadar soldiers on every Federation planet?

I simply don't buy it. Plus, drawing the Romulans into the war would also have the benefit of depleting their resources and ability to make war. If the Federation was able to somehow come out victorious against the Dominion on its own, it would be so weakened that it would be easy pickings for a Romulan Empire that sat on the sidelines.
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Old September 13 2013, 08:41 PM   #129
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post

If Sisko's decision leads to a war with the Romulans that proves more devastating than the Dominion War, would it still have been the "right" choice?
How can a war with a technologically equal race end up being more devastating than losing the Dominion war and having thousands of Jem'Hadar soldiers on every Federation planet?

I simply don't buy it. Plus, drawing the Romulans into the war would also have the benefit of depleting their resources and ability to make war. If the Federation was able to somehow come out victorious against the Dominion on its own, it would be so weakened that it would be easy pickings for a Romulan Empire that sat on the sidelines.
Which is not to say that there wasn't risk of blowback and negative consequences down the road. It was a messy, complicated situation that didn't lend itself to simple, black-and-white considerations of right and wrong--which was entirely the point of the episode.
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Old September 13 2013, 08:56 PM   #130
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post

If Sisko's decision leads to a war with the Romulans that proves more devastating than the Dominion War, would it still have been the "right" choice?
How can a war with a technologically equal race end up being more devastating than losing the Dominion war and having thousands of Jem'Hadar soldiers on every Federation planet?

I simply don't buy it. Plus, drawing the Romulans into the war would also have the benefit of depleting their resources and ability to make war. If the Federation was able to somehow come out victorious against the Dominion on its own, it would be so weakened that it would be easy pickings for a Romulan Empire that sat on the sidelines.
Just because the Romulans are technologically equal at the time of DS9 doesn't mean they'll continue to be. As their animosity towards Vulcans shows, they're quite capable of holding grudges.

You're welcome not to buy it, but that doesn't mean it won't happen at some point.

If we were to look at the novelverse, right now the Romulan praetor is fairly well-disposed towards the Federation (at least she is at the point I'm at in the books). It's easy enough to imagine that if Sisko's deception came out at this point in time, that would be at least temporarily shaken. Even if the praetor herself understood why Sisko did what he did, could we reasonably expect the Romulans as a people to simply overlook the situation?
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Old September 20 2013, 05:36 PM   #131
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

DonIago wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post

If Sisko's decision leads to a war with the Romulans that proves more devastating than the Dominion War, would it still have been the "right" choice?
How can a war with a technologically equal race end up being more devastating than losing the Dominion war and having thousands of Jem'Hadar soldiers on every Federation planet?

I simply don't buy it. Plus, drawing the Romulans into the war would also have the benefit of depleting their resources and ability to make war. If the Federation was able to somehow come out victorious against the Dominion on its own, it would be so weakened that it would be easy pickings for a Romulan Empire that sat on the sidelines.
Just because the Romulans are technologically equal at the time of DS9 doesn't mean they'll continue to be. As their animosity towards Vulcans shows, they're quite capable of holding grudges.

You're welcome not to buy it, but that doesn't mean it won't happen at some point.

If we were to look at the novelverse, right now the Romulan praetor is fairly well-disposed towards the Federation (at least she is at the point I'm at in the books). It's easy enough to imagine that if Sisko's deception came out at this point in time, that would be at least temporarily shaken. Even if the praetor herself understood why Sisko did what he did, could we reasonably expect the Romulans as a people to simply overlook the situation?
Eh, it was a pretty sure thing that not getting help from the Romulans against the Dominion would be catastrophic. So, deal with that first, and if it led to war with The Romulans later (Which sure wasn't a certainty, whereas the Dominion dominance pretty much was) then deal with that, at that time.
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Old September 20 2013, 06:28 PM   #132
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

^But that was my point, Sisko didn't plan to deal with it later. He didn't plan to deal with it at all.
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Old September 20 2013, 06:30 PM   #133
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Sure he did. He erased the log entry and any evidence of his or the Federation's culpability. The only way he could do a better job of that is arrange an accident for Garak. Win the war with the Dominion today before you worry about the war with the Romulans tomorrow.
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Old September 20 2013, 06:39 PM   #134
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
^But that was my point, Sisko didn't plan to deal with it later. He didn't plan to deal with it at all.
Why would he? He achieved his objective by bringing the Romulans into the war.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Win the war with the Dominion today before you worry about the war with the Romulans tomorrow.
From everything we've seen, it seemed the Romulans never really had the stomach for an out-and-out war with the Federation.
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Old September 20 2013, 06:47 PM   #135
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
^But that was my point, Sisko didn't plan to deal with it later. He didn't plan to deal with it at all.
If you're on the second or third floor of a building that is burning, and you can't get out through the stairs or elevator, you jump out the window and hope for the best. You may break your neck, or at least your leg, but, you don't plan, at that point in time to deal with that, since you don't what will happen to you until you hit the ground, which has got to be better than burning to death. "Planning" for what would happen when you jump out the window would mean calling a doctor, etc. You worry about fixing your broken leg or whatever, after you have escaped the fire, you don't waste time, possibly burning to death in the process of planning for what might happen when you hit the ground
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