RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,107
Posts: 5,400,195
Members: 24,744
Currently online: 440
Newest member: Ohwowmelody

TrekToday headlines

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Revelation and Dust.
Outstanding 29 25.66%
Above Average 45 39.82%
Average 26 23.01%
Below Average 7 6.19%
Poor 6 5.31%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 13 2013, 04:04 AM   #286
JeBuS
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JD wrote: View Post
Not in my case. I stopped both Before Dishnor and Seize the Fire after only a couple chapters. I'm going to give something a good review just because it's Trek.
The only reason I've loved the Trek books so much, is because they are damn good books. If I don't like a book, I'll say I don't like it whether it is Trek or not.
I'm the opposite, I pretty much always finish a book, no matter how horrible I find it. Over the past two years, I've read about 500 books, but have only quit on one, The Power of the Dog by Don Winslow. The idea of leaving a story untold... anathema to me. I guess maybe that's why I disliked RaD?
JeBuS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 04:21 AM   #287
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I can see that, but I've got way to big of a to read list to waste my time on something I'm not liking.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 04:31 AM   #288
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JD wrote: View Post
Not in my case. I stopped both Before Dishnor and Seize the Fire after only a couple chapters. I'm going to give something a good review just because it's Trek.
Same here. In fact, the only Trek novels released this year I've bothered to read at all have been Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures and The Fall: Revelation and Dust. None of the others had premises that interested me.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 12:57 PM   #289
TJ Sinclair
Captain
 
TJ Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: There and back again...
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Good lord, this thread is a mess. Almost as bad as RTD vs. Moff arguments on Gallifrey Base.

In any event, I finished Revelation and Dust a couple of hours ago. Like most of DRG3's books, I truly appreciate the world-building, the vivid description, and proper voice he gives to the characters. But like most of DRG3's recent books, I don't love it. I haven't loved one of his books since Twilight. It seems to be that he needs longer page counts to really tell the story he wants to, and in recent efforts, those stories have been spread out over several novels, or unfortunately condensed in ways that undermine both their structure and nuance.

Reading through the thread, apart from the pissing matches over the book's worth, I'm surprised by a couple of things: the hate that Bacco seems to have engendered in a segment of readers, and the number of people that "didn't get" the ancient Bajor chapters. In the case of the former, I suppose it's just personal taste, but I love the character; in the second, by now, I would have thought readers were used to these kind of metaphorical sidesteps into an alternate life and thus able to see how it relates to the present as the tale develops and not only at the end.

In any case, I'm glad I read it. Since I haven't been interested enough in any of this year's TOS novels to read them, I've been eagerly anticipating this one. Far from perfect, but decent enough. I can't say I was particularly caught off guard by any of the events of the book, except that on the last page, but I enjoyed it well enough. I'll happily read through the rest of The Fall, but at this point, I'm mostly looking forward to James Swallow's Titan entry.
__________________
"Social harmony is not a good goal. There's plenty of social harmony in a prison camp. The individual is the smallest and most oppressed minority..." -- Diane Carey, April 2001
TJ Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 01:41 PM   #290
Jarvisimo
Commander
 
Jarvisimo's Avatar
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
It seems to be that he needs longer page counts to really tell the story he wants to, and in recent efforts, those stories have been spread out over several novels, or unfortunately condensed in ways that undermine both their structure and nuance.
I really agree with this! It kind of felt like we only had one chapter with each character (except Ro and Sisko), and this kind of undercut the sense of continuous development - especially of characters who are still cipherical (like Blackmer). It also made chapters where resolutions happened (esp. Dax and Bashir) feel perfunctory. All of which contrasted with Kira muchos, and which may have added to others' dissapointment

Compression also felt an issue with the prior duology, especially when seemingly key characters were dropped (O Spock, where art thou?).

But still I enjoyed these moments as they happened, but I just wish there had been more time for everyone to breathe, in true DRG style. The Kira narrative was nice, it felt like his McCoy narrative in many ways, in style especially. It has been a long time since I read the Gateways novella in the same era - was it a good fit with that?
__________________
Speculum
Jarvisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 04:13 PM   #291
TJ Sinclair
Captain
 
TJ Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: There and back again...
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Jarvisimo wrote: View Post
The Kira narrative was nice, it felt like his McCoy narrative in many ways, in style especially. It has been a long time since I read the Gateways novella in the same era - was it a good fit with that?
That part of RaD was clearly at least several centuries later than "Horn and Ivory," but it dovetailed rather nicely. No direct references, but I easily connected to it as part of the same world, which helped me get into what was going on.

I'm not the biggest Kira fan in the universe, tending to prefer her in an action role to a spiritual/introspective one, but having "Horn and Ivory" in memory (for some reason it's really vivid, even after all these years), put me in the proper frame of mind for this one.

As far as most of the characters not getting their due, I certainly agree, though in contrast to Kira, I've always loved Ro so having her front and center was okay by me. Also, I've had to grit my teeth through the Bashir storyline since Zero Sum Game, and having so little of him and Serena was also a welcome break.
__________________
"Social harmony is not a good goal. There's plenty of social harmony in a prison camp. The individual is the smallest and most oppressed minority..." -- Diane Carey, April 2001
TJ Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 08:50 PM   #292
Jarvisimo
Commander
 
Jarvisimo's Avatar
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
Jarvisimo wrote: View Post
The Kira narrative was nice, it felt like his McCoy narrative in many ways, in style especially. It has been a long time since I read the Gateways novella in the same era - was it a good fit with that?
That part of RaD was clearly at least several centuries later than "Horn and Ivory," but it dovetailed rather nicely. No direct references, but I easily connected to it as part of the same world, which helped me get into what was going on.

I'm not the biggest Kira fan in the universe, tending to prefer her in an action role to a spiritual/introspective one, but having "Horn and Ivory" in memory (for some reason it's really vivid, even after all these years), put me in the proper frame of mind for this one.

As far as most of the characters not getting their due, I certainly agree, though in contrast to Kira, I've always loved Ro so having her front and center was okay by me. Also, I've had to grit my teeth through the Bashir storyline since Zero Sum Game, and having so little of him and Serena was also a welcome break.
Ah, i see about Horn and Ivory! I did like this presentation of the Bajora, and having read up on H&I again, I liked how DRG made this period very different (technologically, politically). However, the resistance plotline and style did feel generic too, as someone mentioned upstream. Like a bit of cod-Sebastian Faulks writing.

And as for Bashir - you mean you didn't enjoy ZSG, or you haven't enjoyed his material since ZSG? I think Book 3 of The Fall is well worth looking forward to. Maybe Shar too? I really didn't enoy what Paths of Disharmony suggested about Andorian society - it presented, for me, too simplistic, too binary, a society. And the seperation happened too quick.
__________________
Speculum
Jarvisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 09:29 PM   #293
JWolf
Commodore
 
JWolf's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

flandry84 wrote: View Post
At which point does this hunt for new readers(creating jumping on points or defying Trek lore)become detrimental to the whole project?
I haven't yet read this book but the thought of yet another time gap is not filling me with enthusiasm.All these revamps and relaunches are getting hard to keep current with.
I realise that treklits and the tv show are different mediums but at some point the book universe needs to settle down and just get on with it's business.
The time gap isn't an issue as we do get some of it filled in. So really, don't worry about the time gap. It's filled in well enough.
__________________
Jon
JWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 09:35 PM   #294
JWolf
Commodore
 
JWolf's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

j3067 wrote: View Post
Unless the book is by Michael A Martin; it is ok to think his books are poorly written here. You are only allowed to say that DRG3 books did not work for you. Apparently it is not possible to disagree about the quality of an author's work.
It's OK to say you didn't like Revelation and Dust or it didn't wok for you or you thought it was poor. But it's NOT OK to say it's garbage. That's an insult and defamatory. It's all in how you word your dislike that matters.

Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
__________________
Jon

Last edited by JWolf; September 13 2013 at 09:50 PM.
JWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 09:41 PM   #295
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
It's OK to say you didn't like Revelation and Dust or it didn't wok for you or you thought it was poor. But it's NOT OK to say it's garbage. That's an insult and defamatory. It's all in how you word your dislike that matters.

Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of the Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
You've attacked numerous other posters over the spoiler issue, questioned their character, motives, and respect for the people who run this site, yet you're taking people to task because they don't like a book? Give me a break! I agree that using a term like garbage is probably over the top, but let's not make more of this than it is. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Saying that someone's making defamatory remarks after you've gone out of your way to pick fights with people isn't going to win you any friends around here. And it seems I've said that to you before.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 09:53 PM   #296
JWolf
Commodore
 
JWolf's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sran wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
It's OK to say you didn't like Revelation and Dust or it didn't wok for you or you thought it was poor. But it's NOT OK to say it's garbage. That's an insult and defamatory. It's all in how you word your dislike that matters.

Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
You've attacked numerous other posters over the spoiler issue, questioned their character, motives, and respect for the people who run this site, yet you're taking people to task because they don't like a book? Give me a break! I agree that using a term like garbage is probably over the top, but let's not make more of this than it is. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Saying that someone's making defamatory remarks after you've gone out of your way to pick fights with people isn't going to win you any friends around here. And it seems I've said that to you before.

--Sran
I am saying that there are ways to say you didn't like a book that is not insulting. Saying it's garbage is insulting. What about that don't you get? Even saying it's lousy is better then calling it garbage. You cannot change what is and what is is that calling it garbage is insulting and always will be.
__________________
Jon
JWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 09:59 PM   #297
JWolf
Commodore
 
JWolf's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JeBuS wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Scout101 wrote: View Post
Given how review threads usually go in here, the general tone and comments in this thread are a pretty good indication that it was not as well received as some of the previous books.
Don't mistake a few people talking more than others for a general consensus.

The fact remains that 2/3rds of the people here who rated it gave it a positive rating.
By that metric, every TrekLit novel is the epitome of literary art.
There are a lot of books that are "literary art" that I would not read because they are just tedious (IMHO). The poll is not about how high-brow these books are, but about how enjoyable they are.

Take Dan Brown for example. His books are not literary art. But are they enjoyable to many people? The answer is yes they are. That's the main purpose of a novel. I've read a number of "classics" in school and most of them I did not like and would not recommend be "force fed" in school. That's the problem with reading. Many kids get their like/dislike for reading from school and when schools force kids to read books that are obsolete, no longer relevant to today's kids, and written in a style that's not easy to digest, it turns kids off on reading.
__________________
Jon
JWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 10:01 PM   #298
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
I am saying that there are ways to say you didn't like a book that is not insulting. Saying it's garbage is insulting. What about that don't you get? Even saying it's lousy is better then calling it garbage. You cannot change what is and what is is that calling it garbage is insulting and always will be.
There are also ways to talk to people without being condescending. What about that don't you get? And on the subject of what's insulting, I shouldn't have to remind you that repeatedly trying to undermine the mods with your self-righteous, masturbatory rants about the use of spoiler codes is extremely demeaning and uncalled for. There are a number of people who work hard to make this site a fun place to be. You've repeatedly attacked the credibility of this work without any consideration for how the mods or anyone else feels about your remarks. You might try taking your own advice and refraining from making additional insults towards anyone on this site before attacking another person because they've expressed an opinion you don't agree with.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 10:20 PM   #299
JeBuS
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
There are a lot of books that are "literary art" that I would not read because they are just tedious (IMHO). The poll is not about how high-brow these books are, but about how enjoyable they are.

Take Dan Brown for example. His books are not literary art. But are they enjoyable to many people? The answer is yes they are. That's the main purpose of a novel. I've read a number of "classics" in school and most of them I did not like and would not recommend be "force fed" in school. That's the problem with reading. Many kids get their like/dislike for reading from school and when schools force kids to read books that are obsolete, no longer relevant to today's kids, and written in a style that's not easy to digest, it turns kids off on reading.
Way to completely miss the point. Seems to be a running theme of this thread.
JeBuS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2013, 11:36 PM   #300
j3067
Lieutenant Commander
 
j3067's Avatar
 
Location: Prepping for the next Great Tribble Hunt
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
j3067 wrote: View Post
Unless the book is by Michael A Martin; it is ok to think his books are poorly written here. You are only allowed to say that DRG3 books did not work for you. Apparently it is not possible to disagree about the quality of an author's work.
It's OK to say you didn't like Revelation and Dust or it didn't wok for you or you thought it was poor. But it's NOT OK to say it's garbage. That's an insult and defamatory. It's all in how you word your dislike that matters.

Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
MAM gets slammed at least as hard around here without the same indignation. That is the point I am trying to make. Actually I believe you said that Martin 'treated us like idiots' in the Fallen Gods thread.

Just to be clear, I'm not interested in reading more from Martin unless it also says Mangels on the cover but that seems quite improbable.

Last edited by j3067; September 13 2013 at 11:46 PM.
j3067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.