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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old September 13 2013, 01:46 AM   #511
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Harvey wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Do we have any evidence that Roddenberry did, in fact, try to sell them on this idea of the ship being a star?
I haven't seen anything indicating this. If he did, it obviously didn't work. NBC wanted to see strange new worlds as often as possible, and grumbled at nearly every bottle show outline submitted to them.

I know Warped9 has made it there, but has anyone else made it to the chapter on 'The Alternative Factor?' I still think the author's central narrative there -- that NBC forced a late re-write to avoid an interracial (that is, black/white) romance -- is asserted without any evidence. There's no memo that actually says it, and no interview after the fact that supports it.

Thinking further, if this is true, it's sort of odd that Roddenberry (who loved to blame NBC) never opened up about this in public. He never had a problem asserting the network was racist or too meddling before.
You'd think that NBC would simply force a recasting of the Lieutenant Charlene Masters role by replacing the late Janet MacLachlan with someone else, instead of forcing a late rewrite to the script. I'm thinking that phone call would be about 30 seconds long.
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Old September 13 2013, 01:51 AM   #512
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Indysolo wrote: View Post
The first season green shirt was also seen in Court Martial.
If anyone is interested, Kirk's first season wraparound is seen in (in production order):

The Enemy Within
Charlie X
The Conscience of the King
Court Martial
This Side of Paradise
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Old September 13 2013, 01:58 AM   #513
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

From what I read regarding "The Alternative Factor" NBC had two reservations. Yes, they were uneasy about the depiction of an interracial romance, but they also were bothered by the idea of Charlene Masters betraying Kirk and the ship to help Lazarus. They felt that Masters betraying her commanding officer and her oath and responsibilities would seem too much like Marl McGivers' betrayal in "Space Seed," particularly since the previous episode happened not long earlier and in the same season. I didn't get the sense they outright forbade the romance and the betrayal element, but they didn't care for either.

It follows that if you eliminate the romance then you have no grounds for establishing a betrayal. They tried writing it so that Masters could help Lazarus without betraying Kirk, but it doesn't seem to have worked well enough to anyone's satisfaction. The final alternative was to recast the role of Masters with a white actress, but they didn't really want to do that either. So in the end they kept the actress and her character but just eliminated the romance and betrayal. Thus Masters became just another crew person that served no real dramatic function.

I didn't get the sense that anyone really fought over this, but that it was just one more thing that was going wrong and most everyone just wanted to get this one over with and be done with it.

I always wondered why it had to be Kirk alone that had to force Lazurus into his ship when he had Spock and a security detail right there to help him out.
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Old September 13 2013, 02:02 AM   #514
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

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They felt that Masters betraying her commanding officer and her oath and responsibilities would seem too much like Marl McGivers' betrayal in "Space Seed," particularly since the previous episode happened not long earlier and in the same season. I didn't get the sense they outright forbade the romance and the betrayal element, but they didn't care for either.
'Space Seed' was actually the 23rd episode produced; 'The Alternative Factor' was produced 20th.

I'll have to re-read the chapter in question and respond in more detail.
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Old September 13 2013, 02:08 AM   #515
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Harvey wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
They felt that Masters betraying her commanding officer and her oath and responsibilities would seem too much like Marl McGivers' betrayal in "Space Seed," particularly since the previous episode happened not long earlier and in the same season. I didn't get the sense they outright forbade the romance and the betrayal element, but they didn't care for either.
'Space Seed' was actually the 23rd episode produced; 'The Alternative Factor' was produced 20th.

I'll have to re-read the chapter in question and respond in more detail.
Much (but it doesn't look like all) of the chapter is here:

http://www.jacobsbrownmediagroup.com...te-factor.html
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Old September 13 2013, 02:13 AM   #516
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Oh, I have the book. I just need the time to go through that part again.

(I'm doing some work from home this evening, so have only been popping in here).
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Old September 13 2013, 02:58 AM   #517
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Harvey wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
They felt that Masters betraying her commanding officer and her oath and responsibilities would seem too much like Marl McGivers' betrayal in "Space Seed," particularly since the previous episode happened not long earlier and in the same season. I didn't get the sense they outright forbade the romance and the betrayal element, but they didn't care for either.
'Space Seed' was actually the 23rd episode produced; 'The Alternative Factor' was produced 20th.
But couldn't they have read the "Space Seed" script or outline beforehand?
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Old September 13 2013, 03:05 AM   #518
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Certainly. Cushman's most interesting (but hardly conclusive) evidence is a Roddenberry memo noting the similarity between the two stories. I'm not sure if NBC had received 'Space Seed' by the time 'The Alternative Factor' was being re-written at the last minute. I'd have to check the book (and, if the information isn't there, the Stanley Robertson letters in the UCLA files).
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Old September 13 2013, 03:27 AM   #519
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Indysolo wrote: View Post
The first season green shirt was also seen in Court Martial.
If anyone is interested, Kirk's first season wraparound is seen in (in production order):

The Conscience of the King
Where?
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Old September 13 2013, 03:32 AM   #520
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Perusing Trek Core quickly, it doesn't seem to be in the episode.
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Old September 13 2013, 03:36 AM   #521
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Indysolo wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Indysolo wrote: View Post
The first season green shirt was also seen in Court Martial.
If anyone is interested, Kirk's first season wraparound is seen in (in production order):

The Conscience of the King
Where?
In "The Conscience of the King," Spock pulls the shirt out of Kirk's rotating dresser-thing in his search for the phaser on overload. In "This Side of Paradise," it's seen sitting in Kirk's "Flight Bag" as he's packing up his belongings, getting ready to beam down for the last time.
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Old September 13 2013, 03:37 AM   #522
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Harvey wrote: View Post
Certainly. Cushman's most interesting (but hardly conclusive) evidence is a Roddenberry memo noting the similarity between the two stories. I'm not sure if NBC had received 'Space Seed' by the time 'The Alternative Factor' was being re-written at the last minute. I'd have to check the book (and, if the information isn't there, the Stanley Robertson letters in the UCLA files).
Okay, forget what I wrote above. I misremembered some of it, but just checked the book again.

Roddenberry sent a memo to Coon about his concerns of Masters betraying Kirk in a similar fashion as McGivers betraying Kirk. His objection comes about not so much because of the story element of betrayal, but because the two stories ("Speace Seed" and "The Alternative Factor") were in the works at the same time and he didn't like using the same gimmick twice or at least one so soon after the other. Both story outlines were submitted the same day, August 29th, 1966, so both stories were in-the-works concurrently.

Stan Roberton's objection early on was in regard to an early story element in "The Altenative Factor" that had Kirk meet his mirror universe double. He didn't like it because we had already seen a Kirk double twice in "The Enemy Within" and "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"

NBC didn't balk about the romance until the actress to play Masters was hired and then folks at NBC started making "off the record" phone calls to Desilu. Then it became "drop the romance" or "recast the actress." This was late in the game and so they decided to keep the actress and drop the romance.
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Old September 13 2013, 03:42 AM   #523
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Certainly. Cushman's most interesting (but hardly conclusive) evidence is a Roddenberry memo noting the similarity between the two stories. I'm not sure if NBC had received 'Space Seed' by the time 'The Alternative Factor' was being re-written at the last minute. I'd have to check the book (and, if the information isn't there, the Stanley Robertson letters in the UCLA files).
Okay, forget what I wrote above. I misremembered some of it, but just checked the book again.

Roddenberry sent a memo to Coon about his concerns of Masters betraying Kirk in a similar fashion as McGivers betraying Kirk. His objection comes about not so much because of the story element of betrayal, but because the two stories ("Speace Seed" and "The Alternative Factor") were in the works at the same time and he didn't like using the same gimmick twice or at least one so soon after the other. Both story outlines were submitted the same day, August 29th, 1966, so both stories were in-the-works concurrently.

Stan Roberton's objection early on was in regard to an early story element in "The Altenative Factor" that had Kirk meet his mirror universe double. He didn't like it because we had already seen a Kirk double twice in "The Enemy Within" and "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"

NBC didn't balk about the romance until the actress to play Masters was hired and then folks at NBC started making "off the record" phone calls to Desilu. Then it became "drop the romance" or "recast the actress." This was late in the game and so they decided to keep the actress and drop the romance.
And yet there's some kind of record of these "off the record" phone calls?
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Old September 13 2013, 03:42 AM   #524
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Indysolo wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post

If anyone is interested, Kirk's first season wraparound is seen in (in production order):

The Conscience of the King
Where?
In "The Conscience of the King," Spock pulls the shirt out of Kirk's rotating dresser-thing in his search for the phaser on overload. In "This Side of Paradise," it's seen sitting in Kirk's "Flight Bag" as he's packing up his belongings, getting ready to beam down for the last time.
I stand corrected. Good eye!
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Old September 13 2013, 03:46 AM   #525
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Checking the writers reports I transcribed from UCLA, it appears that NBC got the outline for 'Space Seed' first. Wilbur delivered his draft on 8/29; by 9/2 it was awaiting NBC approval. Ingalls delivered his draft on 8/30, and was asked to make revisions first (which were delivered on 9/12).
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