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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old September 3 2013, 02:54 AM   #16
Sindatur
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Things happened as we saw on TV back in the day, without Clara or The Great Intelligence.

Then The Great Intelligence entered The Doctor's time stream and sabotaged his victories, in some unseen way. (Maybe one of those unseen sabotages was pushing The Doctor towards a different TARDIS, that wouldn't always take him where he needed to be. That alone could make a huge difference to a great many civilizations he wouldn't have visited on his own piloting)

Then Clara popped into the Time Stream and she undid The GI's sabotage, by directing The Doctor to the right TARDIS or any other thing a Clara might do to set time back straight.
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Old September 3 2013, 05:02 PM   #17
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
The clips of the 2nd and 3rd Doctor are of him running and driving from a teleporation spiral in the episode "The Five Doctors". His 2nd persona runs by Clara, but he is still captured by President Borusa. His 3rd persona drives by Clara and he sees her in his rear view mirror yelling his name but he is also captured by Borusa.
I assumed that although they were taken from The Five Doctors, those scenes aren't meant to be those same scenes. Particularly the Second Doctor, who is now in California with the Eighth Doctor. As for the Third, it could be any random time he was driving Bessie down a highway.
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Old September 4 2013, 12:26 AM   #18
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
TBH I thought she essentially telefragged the GI, by being transported to all the moments where it had just been transported to, and taking its place...
I think this is the best theory. She supplanted the GI in the timeline, erasing him and whatever he had done.
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Old September 4 2013, 07:03 AM   #19
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
TBH I thought she essentially telefragged the GI, by being transported to all the moments where it had just been transported to, and taking its place...
OK, double thumbs up for providing both a logical explanation and the awesome Doom reference.
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Old September 5 2013, 11:28 PM   #20
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
TBH I thought she essentially telefragged the GI, by being transported to all the moments where it had just been transported to, and taking its place...
In that case, all that would be needed for Clara to defeat the GI would be to enter the timestream. Yet we know of three instances (The Snowmen, Asylum Of The Daleks, plus getting the Doctor to steal the right Tardis) where she has taken a more active role in proceedings. And surely all the running around trying to get his attention in 'The Name Of The Doctor' means she was doing something, even if the Doctor himself was unaware of it.
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Old September 6 2013, 09:06 AM   #21
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Getting the Doctor to steal the right TARDIS would appear to be the only time she consciously interfered with things. In Asylum and The Snowman she only seemed to have an inkling of her real self on the verge of death.

I suspect some instances of her intersecting with the Doctor required more action than others.
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Old September 7 2013, 01:03 PM   #22
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Yeah, that could be it. Maybe some instances of interference were as low key as the GI (for example) spilling some water in a corridor so the Doctor would later slip as he runs away from that weeks monster. And Clara just happened to be a janitor with a mop and bucket, cleaning it up just in time.

She would still have been aware of, and trying to help, the Doctor in some situations, hence all the rushing around looking for him in the montage sequence.
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Old September 10 2013, 04:18 AM   #23
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Starkers wrote: View Post
Getting the Doctor to steal the right TARDIS would appear to be the only time she consciously interfered with things. In Asylum and The Snowman she only seemed to have an inkling of her real self on the verge of death.

I suspect some instances of her intersecting with the Doctor required more action than others.
Thinking about that, it opened another can of worms in my head. Ask yourself, how did Clara know which TARDIS the Doctor should steal? It's Galifreyan technology and looks no different than any of the other TT capsules. With the TARDIS' history of rejecting/disliking "impossible" companions. Such as Clara and Jack Harkness. I think it's unlikely the TARDIS communicated the specific information about itself to Clara so that one of her millions of copies would know to influence the Doctor's decision about which one to steal.


I think it was in "The Deadly Assassin" or "Logopolis" when the Fourth Doctor says he stole the TARDIS when she was in for maintence. In "The Doctor's Wife" the TARDIS herself says she was a museum piece when the Doctor stole her/she stole him.

I don't really mind the inconsistency of copy Clara's memories regarding their mission to save the Doctor. If suggesting the Doctor pick the correct TARDIS was Clara only conscious action of countering the GI interference, I'm totally down with that.
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Old September 10 2013, 08:22 AM   #24
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Here's a mindscrew for you. We see Clara on Gallifrey, but presumably she is still biologically human. If she went to every point in his timeline, she must have been there right at the beginning of his very existence.

What if one of the things she did to ensure his safety was to create him in the first place, Emissary-style? What if, not knowing the significance of her actions, she shagged a Gallifreyan bloke and gave birth to a baby?

That would make the Doctor half-human, on his mother's side.

.
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Old September 10 2013, 09:16 AM   #25
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Starkers wrote: View Post
Getting the Doctor to steal the right TARDIS would appear to be the only time she consciously interfered with things. In Asylum and The Snowman she only seemed to have an inkling of her real self on the verge of death.

I suspect some instances of her intersecting with the Doctor required more action than others.
Thinking about that, it opened another can of worms in my head. Ask yourself, how did Clara know which TARDIS the Doctor should steal? It's Galifreyan technology and looks no different than any of the other TT capsules. With the TARDIS' history of rejecting/disliking "impossible" companions. Such as Clara and Jack Harkness. I think it's unlikely the TARDIS communicated the specific information about itself to Clara so that one of her millions of copies would know to influence the Doctor's decision about which one to steal.


I think it was in "The Deadly Assassin" or "Logopolis" when the Fourth Doctor says he stole the TARDIS when she was in for maintence. In "The Doctor's Wife" the TARDIS herself says she was a museum piece when the Doctor stole her/she stole him.

I don't really mind the inconsistency of copy Clara's memories regarding their mission to save the Doctor. If suggesting the Doctor pick the correct TARDIS was Clara only conscious action of countering the GI interference, I'm totally down with that.
Just to throw another spanner in the works, what if the Tardis Clara told him to take wasn't actually the Tardis we know and love, maybe that's why the Tardis was always trying to shut Clara out!

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Here's a mindscrew for you. We see Clara on Gallifrey, but presumably she is still biologically human. If she went to every point in his timeline, she must have been there right at the beginning of his very existence.

What if one of the things she did to ensure his safety was to create him in the first place, Emissary-style? What if, not knowing the significance of her actions, she shagged a Gallifreyan bloke and gave birth to a baby?

That would make the Doctor half-human, on his mother's side.

.
You know that's quite a scary thought
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Old September 10 2013, 01:41 PM   #26
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

Starkers wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Starkers wrote: View Post
Getting the Doctor to steal the right TARDIS would appear to be the only time she consciously interfered with things. In Asylum and The Snowman she only seemed to have an inkling of her real self on the verge of death.

I suspect some instances of her intersecting with the Doctor required more action than others.
Thinking about that, it opened another can of worms in my head. Ask yourself, how did Clara know which TARDIS the Doctor should steal? It's Galifreyan technology and looks no different than any of the other TT capsules. With the TARDIS' history of rejecting/disliking "impossible" companions. Such as Clara and Jack Harkness. I think it's unlikely the TARDIS communicated the specific information about itself to Clara so that one of her millions of copies would know to influence the Doctor's decision about which one to steal.


I think it was in "The Deadly Assassin" or "Logopolis" when the Fourth Doctor says he stole the TARDIS when she was in for maintence. In "The Doctor's Wife" the TARDIS herself says she was a museum piece when the Doctor stole her/she stole him.

I don't really mind the inconsistency of copy Clara's memories regarding their mission to save the Doctor. If suggesting the Doctor pick the correct TARDIS was Clara only conscious action of countering the GI interference, I'm totally down with that.
Just to throw another spanner in the works, what if the Tardis Clara told him to take wasn't actually the Tardis we know and love, maybe that's why the Tardis was always trying to shut Clara out!
You know I can see the First Doctor, who was old, grumpy and self important ignoring Clara's suggestion. A girl a few years older than Susan telling the Doctor which TARDIS to take. "What presumption" or some other phrase he might say.

While it's possible the Doctor "forgot" meeting Clara before leaving Gallifrey during his first life. If the TARDIS really is as possessive of the Doctor like we see in "The Doctor's Wife". I can imagine her never forgetting how Clara almost came between them.

Starkers wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Here's a mindscrew for you. We see Clara on Gallifrey, but presumably she is still biologically human. If she went to every point in his timeline, she must have been there right at the beginning of his very existence.

What if one of the things she did to ensure his safety was to create him in the first place, Emissary-style? What if, not knowing the significance of her actions, she shagged a Gallifreyan bloke and gave birth to a baby?

That would make the Doctor half-human, on his mother's side.

.
You know that's quite a scary thought
That is an evil thought. Haha I forgot all about the 8th Doctor's "half human on his mother' side" schtick.
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Old September 10 2013, 02:24 PM   #27
The Wormhole
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Here's a mindscrew for you. We see Clara on Gallifrey, but presumably she is still biologically human. If she went to every point in his timeline, she must have been there right at the beginning of his very existence.

What if one of the things she did to ensure his safety was to create him in the first place, Emissary-style? What if, not knowing the significance of her actions, she shagged a Gallifreyan bloke and gave birth to a baby?

That would make the Doctor half-human, on his mother's side.

.
Damn! I kind of like that.
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Old September 12 2013, 01:10 AM   #28
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

The Doctor Who Magazine review pointed this out as one of the problems with the episode; you can read Graham Kibble-White's (well-written) take here: http://whoreview.wordpress.com/2013/...of-the-doctor/
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Old September 12 2013, 03:18 AM   #29
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

^^Off topic, but I looked at that address and thought it said "whore view" before I realized it was "who review."
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Last edited by The Wormhole; September 12 2013 at 01:56 PM.
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Old September 12 2013, 04:21 AM   #30
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Re: How exactly did Clara "save" the Doctor.

^AHAHAHA I did the same thing.


The article did touch on some of the same things I pointed out. Main passages here

The story of the Impossible Girl also comes to its conclusion, and it’s been a fine old ride. The very fact it resulted in that augmented crazy clips package justifies the whole exercise, before we even get going on the explanation. The concept of Clara splintered in time (I’ve seen City of Death, I know the lingo), and interacting with every incarnation of the Doctor is grand. To have something that tinkers with the everythingness of Doctor Who is exactly what we need in this year of years. And because of that, it works as a first pass. But look at it for a moment longer, and it falls to bits.

Why, if Clara’s been bobbing around the Doctor’s time stream, didn’t he recognise her when they met sans Dalek casing in The Snowmen? Readers, I’ve given this a bit of thought. I guess the line “But he almost never hears me” covers that. But it’s a flip-floppy piece of writing. The Time Lord’s never aware of Clara, except for those moments when he is? I’m also at a loss to work out what the Great Intelligence is actually up to when he inserts himself into the montage. Are we to read this as him continually killing the Doctor? Or just standing around all day looking tough (which must be very wearing on the nerves)? Also, how is Clara thwarting his efforts? Does her presence somehow boot him out of the time stream? Do they wrestle? Plus, where exactly are she and the Doctor at the end of the episode? And, hang on, this has just occurred to me – how come Clara’s suspicious of River’s grave? She states she knows the prof isn’t dead, but neither is the Doctor and no one’s querying his resting place.

Normally I’m not sure how much these details matter. Particularly in a story that’s about to skewer our understanding of Doctor Who history. But when so much screen time is also devoted to plot mechanics, it begs you to make a closer inspection
.


Like myself and most people, we found TNOTD really riveting and engaging the first watch through. They were throwing some heavy shit at us and it all sounded pretty good. However upon rewatches and thinking about the episode logically, you realize it's full of holes and doesn't make any sense. It's sort of like Moffat is the Master and he's hypnotized everyone in the fandom. Doctor Who series 3 "The Sound of Drums" style. Don't know what he's talking about but it sounded good.
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