RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,632
Posts: 5,427,478
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 490
Newest member: Rom

TrekToday headlines

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 9 2013, 03:48 PM   #1
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"





"First Blood" in SPAAAACE! And that's not the only action hero movie franchise that TNG will be lifting it's ideas from.

Our story opens with Picard on an alien world where he is discussing with the Prime Minister about his world joining the Federation of Planets. Things seem to go smoothly until the Prime Minister informs Picard that a prisoner has escaped and they're not equipped to handle it. Riker decides to help out and we get a sour preview of what's to come. The prisoner they're chasing is so clever, he manages to outthink and outmaneuver EVERYONE. The way his character is portrayed comes off more as a game character where the player typed in "godmode" and, I'm not kidding, "noclip". After managing to beam him onboard, we get that funny scene with O'Brien where he calls again and again for "More security! More security!" as this prisoner owns the whole place. We even get an awkward shot of Worf peeking out of the Turbolift before dashing out into the corridor to subdue the prisoner. Was this an editing miscalculation? The way Worf slowly peeks out of the turbolift really feels out of place and out of character. It would have been better if the shot had just cut to Worf and Riker running out of the turbolift.

And...*sigh*... Troi is brought into the picture. I know she gets a lot of flack for stating the obvious from episode to episode, but I find the handling of Roga to be much worse. This is a prisoner who has killed two people and assaulted five Starfleet officers, and she's trying to convince Picard that he is not a violent person based solely on the notion that there is something about him that is "inherently" non-violent. The problem with that argument is that it doesn't amount to much if his violent nature is all that he responds to and it's a cheap way of saying "There is more to him" when really, there isn't. Roga doesn't come off as a sympathetic character who is misunderstood or mistreated. There is no indication that he wants to resolve his problems in a peaceful manner. Maybe if a different actor was cast in the role, they could have pulled it off better, but Jeff McCarthy seems to only channel one emotion, and it's utter disdain.

So Picard decides that Roga is to be transferred back to Angosian authorities despite the very forced views of Troi and Data stating that Roga is perfectly fit to rejoin civilized society. Thankfully Picard just shrugs them off and they initiate the transporter. This is the point in the episode where it goes from a poorly executed drama to complete and utter nonsense. Roga, through the power of the noclip cheat executed by a dance command, manages to manipulate the transporter and escape the Brig. Not only does he manage to escape elsewhere on the Enterprise, he manages to not materialize into a solid object since there is no stationary control over what he was doing. What follows is a series of events that pretty much turns all our main characters into "Wile E. Coyote"s. They try to capture Roga, but are thwarted in every... single... step... I don't mind clever bad guys, but Roga is supposed to be an alien who has never been on a Federation Starship before, yet he's programming phasers into overload, circumventing security subsystems and disabling the ship's sensors. Despite everyone's attempts at stopping him, even venting gas in the cargo hold (which he somehow conveniently knew where a breathing mask was, despite not using it), Roga still manages to escape the Enterprise. Yay........

As the Enterprise tries to repair the job that Roga had done, Picard is informed by the Prime Minister that Roga has freed several of his fellow soldier prisoners and are now heading to the capitol. Picard decides to bring down Troi, Data and Worf. That's great. If you can't contain one single person on your own ship who managed to beat your chief of security one-on-one, what the heck are you going to do when facing an army of them on their own planet? I know Picard is going under the assumption that they won't kill them unless their survival is at stake, but last I checked, Roga's survival wasn't at stake on the Enterprise either. Just his freedom. They're still liable to knock you out, capture you- Oh, never mind. Turns out they literally don't attack anyone unless their lives are being threatened. So how does Picard handle this situation? He lectures the Prime Minister in the most smug manner possible and leaves everything up to them. To make things even more smug, Picard decides while on the bridge to offer the Federation's assistance should the Angosians decide to reintegrate their soldiers back into society. Wow. Kind of makes that whole beaming down thing kind of pointless, doesn't it? And this is Picard's decision, not while he's on the planet trying to not provoke a fight, but while he's leaving the system. No wonder we hardly see any new worlds join the Federation. All the diplomats we send are a bunch of a-holes.

CONCLUSION:
It's really hard to recommend this episode because it doesn't paint our heroes in any sort of positive light. Troi's positive outlook on Roga's condition is non-evident in his actual depiction, the crew are all outsmarted by an alien who should be completely unfamiliar with their ship and nobody seems to give a crap about it in the end. Now that I think about it, "The Hunted" would make for a perfect Enterprise episode since it's level of incompetence and lack of concern from the show's Captain is one of Enterprises' defining qualities.

STINGER:
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2013, 03:53 PM   #2
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

I like this one.

It's an obvious nod to those who came home from Vietnam and were no longer able to fit into society.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2013, 04:02 PM   #3
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

Though I think Worf needs to speak to his security departnemnt, they didn't exactly respond quickly to the urgent call for security. Unless this is one of those union rules only 2 security officers at any one time will be provided.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2013, 07:02 PM   #4
jimbotron
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

This episode also marks the first appearance and canonical naming of the Jefferies Tubes in TNG, though this is the only episode to portray them as wide corridors that you can stand in.

It was a better idea to change them to actual tubes that you had to crawl through, though I bet the cast HATED that.

Other useless trivia - Jeff McCarthy later appears as Voyager's very short-lived original CMO.
jimbotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2013, 07:58 PM   #5
Makarov
Commander
 
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

I like the scene in this one where Worf gets thrown into some cardboard boxes that are meant to be heavy. I can't help but laugh.

Roga's outfit is cool, reminds me of Dash Rendar from star wars. I liked this guy a lot more than "the outrageous okona" atleast. I think it was necessary to have him outsmart the crew. Otherwise they'd just be talking about how he's a great soldier and never showing it.

I wonder who would win, Roga or Khan, since they're both meant to be super soldiers.

I also laugh at the end of the episode because I imagine Picard getting a message a day later saying they all got wiped out.
Makarov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 07:46 AM   #6
MikeS
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Liverpool, UK
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

Jeyl wrote: View Post

Roga doesn't come off as a sympathetic character who is misunderstood or mistreated. There is no indication that he wants to resolve his problems in a peaceful manner.
Are you kidding? His government altered him, used him and then threw him away without even trying to rehabilitate him. "These men had families". When you back an animal into a corner it is likely to attack you to try to escape.

Jeyl wrote: View Post
So Picard decides that Roga is to be transferred back to Angosian authorities despite the very forced views of Troi and Data stating that Roga is perfectly fit to rejoin civilized society.
Weren't they arguing for a rehabilitation programme as a precursor to a return to society? I don't think they would expect to return a killer straight back to society.

BillJ wrote: View Post
I like this one.

It's an obvious nod to those who came home from Vietnam and were no longer able to fit into society.
^ This.
__________________
One day soon, man is going to be able to harness incredible energies, energies that could ultimately hurl us to other worlds in... some sort of spaceship.
MikeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 03:29 PM   #7
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

MikeS wrote:
Are you kidding? His government altered him, used him and then threw him away without even trying to rehabilitate him. "These men had families". When you back an animal into a corner it is likely to attack you to try to escape.
"These men had families"

A line never spoken once in the actual episode. Not saying that they didn't have families, but I'm not going to cut this episode any slack for details it did not bother to cover. Maybe if Roga said he had a family that he left so he could volunteer to fight in a war he believed was the right thing to do, well, maybe Roga's motivation for escaping would make more sense than just acting like a generic criminal who just wanted to escape prison.

BillJ wrote:
It's an obvious nod to those who came home from Vietnam and were no longer able to fit into society.
I find it ironic that when a society practically abandons their soldiers to a life in prison that our real enlightened heroes, when given the opportunity to understand and help out, do the exact same thing. Oh, you're about to potentially start a devastating attack on your own kind because you want to reintegrate back into society? Well, good luck with that because we want no part of it. So I guess the message of this episode is to not get yourself involved with war veterans and the government's inability to reintegrate them into society because it's none of your business.

Since I've been known to have problems conveying why I have issues with some of these episodes, I'm going to quote a bit from SFDebris' review of the episode since he does a much better job at it than I do. I've abridged some of it so if you want to see the whole argument, check out his review.
SFD: This episode was created as an allegory for soldiers returning from the vietnam war, so it might seem that I'm missing the point and criticizing it. I'm not. I know what they're doing, I just don't think they're doing it terribly well. There's no connection forged with this character so the situation is an abstract one. And you might say "Well, that's the point. People don't understand." Well if that is, that's just not a terribly effective way to carry a message. People don't care, and I'll prove it by making sure you don't give a sh** either!

The episode "The Siege of AR558" showed us the personal horror of war, that it either breaks you or changes you. Now Roga has gone through the same thing, but you would not know it from this episode. The message of what a society owes to those who have made such sacrifices to preserve it is indeed important, and the idea that the people made that decision, that it wasn't worth the expense is definitely a deplorable one. Don't get me wrong. It's just that Roga is an ineffectual poster child for this and it's message does not have the weight that it deserves, trading in implausible escape for time and effort that could have been better spent to showing what a victim he is. He is NOT SHOWN to be a caged wild beast struggling to survive, nor some Hannibal Lector, watching and watching and watching for the one mistake until he strikes. He's just some guy. So you might say "Well, that's what the problem is. He seems like he's just some guy and than his conditioning kicks in *snap* and he's an uber warrior." Except this also is not what we're shown. Roga running about the ship and Roga in his cell seem in every way to be the same person. Troi does not see archive clips of Roga's treatment turning him from an upstanding and enlightened citizen into a killing machine. He just tells us without detail and Doctor Crusher backs it up with some chemical formula. I should be outraged by all of this, but any negative feelings are merely intellectual and thus, less affecting than actual veterans would be. I mean, Roga acts like the greatest trauma he's ever had in this entire thing is having to settle for hazel nut creamer when he prefers french vanilla.
And that's my problem with this episode in a nutshell. Not that it tried to be an allegory to Vietnam War veterans, but for not giving it the right amount of attention that such subjects needs in order to better understand the character and how he relates to actual war veterans.
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 04:32 PM   #8
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

Jeyl wrote: View Post
I find it ironic that when a society practically abandons their soldiers to a life in prison that our real enlightened heroes, when given the opportunity to understand and help out, do the exact same thing. Oh, you're about to potentially start a devastating attack on your own kind because you want to reintegrate back into society? Well, good luck with that because we want no part of it. So I guess the message of this episode is to not get yourself involved with war veterans and the government's inability to reintegrate them into society because it's none of your business.
The problem being, you still have to fit it within the context of the Star Trek universe and its rules. Picard still has to obey the Prime Directive whether we like it or not.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 05:30 PM   #9
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

BillJ wrote: View Post
The problem being, you still have to fit it within the context of the Star Trek universe and its rules. Picard still has to obey the Prime Directive whether we like it or not.
In regards to the Prime Directive, doesn't this society want to join the United Federation of Planets? Doesn't that mean they have warp technology? Shouldn't Picard, a representative of the Federation try to bring peace between these two conflicting cultures as a show of support? He had no problems doing that in "The Vengeance Factor" and those two cultures expressed no interest in becoming part of the Federation.
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 05:44 PM   #10
Makarov
Commander
 
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

The episode wanted to paint the society as bad guys. So Picard just wanted to stick it to them by bringing their problem to light, scolding them for being bad and then beaming away. Surely he should have helped them in any realistic sense, but I guess it's just a TV moment. They do kind of come off as jerks for doing that, and I have to knock the episode down a couple points because of that.
Makarov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 06:51 PM   #11
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

Jeyl wrote: View Post

In regards to the Prime Directive, doesn't this society want to join the United Federation of Planets? Doesn't that mean they have warp technology? Shouldn't Picard, a representative of the Federation try to bring peace between these two conflicting cultures as a show of support? He had no problems doing that in "The Vengeance Factor" and those two cultures expressed no interest in becoming part of the Federation.
But the actions of the Gatherers forced the Federation's involvement (raiding Federation outposts).

Makarov wrote: View Post
The episode wanted to paint the society as bad guys. So Picard just wanted to stick it to them by bringing their problem to light, scolding them for being bad and then beaming away. Surely he should have helped them in any realistic sense, but I guess it's just a TV moment. They do kind of come off as jerks for doing that, and I have to knock the episode down a couple points because of that.
The dispensation of the soldiers was an internal matter of the Angosian government.

PICARD: I have all the information I need for our report. Your prisoner has been returned to you and you have a decision to make. Whether to try to force them back or welcome them home. In your own words, this is not our affair. We cannot interfere in the natural course of your society's development, and I'd say it's likely to develop significantly in the next several minutes
So the difference is the Acamarians were open to Federation intervention to help solve their problem, the Angosians were not.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 07:00 PM   #12
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

And didn't Picard recommend providing assistance (should the Government survive the night)?
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.

Last edited by MacLeod; September 10 2013 at 07:15 PM.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2013, 07:02 PM   #13
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

MacLeod wrote: View Post
And didn't Picard recommend providing assistance (should the Government surive the night)?
Yup.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 02:40 PM   #14
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

BillJ wrote: View Post
But the actions of the Gatherers forced the Federation's involvement (raiding Federation outposts).
So the gatherers were attacking the Federation which is why they chose to get involved. How do you describe what Roga was doing on the Enterprise while he was escaping? I'd hardly call assaulting unarmed Starfleet personal, sabotaging the ship's systems and using the phasers as explosive bombs things that we tolerate. Also, assault on Starfleet officers and sabotage have been used in Star Trek as genuine criminal offenses.

MacLeod wrote:
And didn't Picard recommend providing assistance (should the Government survive the night)?
Yes, and as I said in my original post...

Jeyl wrote:
And this is Picard's decision, not while he's on the planet trying to not provoke a fight, but while he's leaving the system.
So the only point of Picard beaming down to the planet at all was just to lecture and berate the Prime Minister on how this was his society's fault and when things come to a turning point, Picard decides it's none of their business and just leaves. And the assistance you were talking about?
PICARD: Number One, will you note in our report that if the government of Angosia survives the night, we will offer them Federation assistance in their efforts to reprogram their veterans.
RIKER: And if the government doesn't survive?
PICARD: I have a feeling they will choose to.
"if the government of Angosia survives". So a whole society is on the brink of a potentially violent and brutal uprising, and our enlightened Picard's reaction to this is just to be tepid. And this is how you want to tell a story about war veterans being unwanted in society by having our enlightened heroes just shrug it off and hope they don't kill everyone. Well since we never heard from the Angosians again, I have a feeling they didn't survive the night.
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2013, 09:08 PM   #15
jpv2000
Captain
 
jpv2000's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, United States
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x11 "The Hunted"

Jeyl wrote: View Post
PICARD: Number One, will you note in our report that if the government of Angosia survives the night, we will offer them Federation assistance in their efforts to reprogram their veterans.
RIKER: And if the government doesn't survive?
PICARD: I have a feeling they will choose to.
"if the government of Angosia survives". So a whole society is on the brink of a potentially violent and brutal uprising, and our enlightened Picard's reaction to this is just to be tepid. And this is how you want to tell a story about war veterans being unwanted in society by having our enlightened heroes just shrug it off and hope they don't kill everyone. Well since we never heard from the Angosians again, I have a feeling they didn't survive the night.
I actually liked this bit.
jpv2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.