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Old September 10 2013, 05:26 PM   #136
thestrangequark
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Re: What Happens After Death

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Those who say there's nothing after death, aren't you a little bit puzzled by what happens to your perception of nothing? You suddenly cease to exist, how's that going to be? It's paradoxical. How can you experience non-existence? Or how can you not experience existence?

I think that paradox is the basis for any belief in a life after death.
I think it's just because people can't fathom it.

You experience "not existing" before birth simply because you do not exist in the physical world yet.

You also experience a lapse in waking consciousness while sleeping or in a coma. You might be "alive" while sleeping, but what also can occur is closing your eyes and waking up 8 hours later and the entire experience may have felt as though it only lasted for one minute.
But that's you again reflecting upon your unconsciousness when you are conscious. And you do dream while sleeping or in a coma, you just forget about it later on.
You're making this difficult when it is simple. You're worried about one's perception of nothing, but failing to grasp that this is not even an issue: You don't have to worry about what will be perceived, the point is that there will be no perception.
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Old September 10 2013, 06:15 PM   #137
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Re: What Happens After Death

Mind-body dualism is difficult to unknow, because it's so intuitively compelling. The concept seems to be built into the human psyche.
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Old September 10 2013, 10:05 PM   #138
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Re: What Happens After Death

^While I think that dualism, as well as religiosity, is brain-based and rooted in an evolved psychology, I don't see why it is so difficult to comprehend oneself not existing any longer. If you can comprehend a point in time before you existed, then you should be able to comprehend a point in time after you're done existing.
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Old September 11 2013, 03:47 AM   #139
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Re: What Happens After Death

Based on all available evidence, when you die you're dead. There is no evidence that supports the mind's ability to survive outside the body and it seems to be a property of the brain itself. The fact that if you get enough brain damage that it causes changes in personality seems to support this. If we had souls, what happens to them during this? What happens to them if you get Alzheimer's? Is it trapped in a body that it can no longer control?

Personally I think we're better off. I get bored watching shows I like, I couldn't handle eternity.

I wouldn't mind uploading my brain to a computer and cruising around for a while that way until I got bored with the universe.
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Old September 11 2013, 05:04 AM   #140
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Re: What Happens After Death

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
I think since nobody knows what happens after death and everyone has differing beliefs, this thread will only serve to spur religious debate...
I would have said Philosophical.
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
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JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Those who say there's nothing after death, aren't you a little bit puzzled by what happens to your perception of nothing? You suddenly cease to exist, how's that going to be? It's paradoxical. How can you experience non-existence? Or how can you not experience existence?
You can't experience non-existance. That's the point.
Anyone who says it's inconceivable to not experience anything anymore should try to remember the time before he was born/conceived.
Pretty much the same thing.
Was it so horrible to not exist yet?
But that's you right now experiencing not being able to remember something. You compare your current state with your past state. Constantly. And are aware of yourself.

Death is not comparable to that.
I agree with JarodRussell and share his puzzlement in non-existence post-existence.

I believe the brain is more complex than people give it credit for (I know, right?). The electronic signature given off by a brain during existence is unique in every individual, no one experiences life the same as anyone else. Before a brain exists, the unique signature it will later give off would have never existed in reality. A perception of the universe unique to one, generated electrically, can't just be lumped into the same category as pre-existence for me, though comparing after-life to pre-life always seemed like an 'earth is flat' statement to me anyway.

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Nothing happened to me before I existed. Nothing will happen when I'm done existing.
Why?

All I hear when that statement is spoken is "I wont exist, because I existed."

Last edited by bbjeg; September 11 2013 at 05:24 AM.
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Old September 11 2013, 06:34 AM   #141
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Re: What Happens After Death

bbjeg wrote: View Post
I agree with JarodRussell and share his puzzlement in non-existence post-existence.

I believe the brain is more complex than people give it credit for (I know, right?). The electronic signature given off by a brain during existence is unique in every individual, no one experiences life the same as anyone else. Before a brain exists, the unique signature it will later give off would have never existed in reality. A perception of the universe unique to one, generated electrically, can't just be lumped into the same category as pre-existence for me, though comparing after-life to pre-life always seemed like an 'earth is flat' statement to me anyway.
No. When a brain dies, the electric signals die as well. No more oxygen, no more blood, no more electrical signal generation. The brain becomes defunct. The electrical processes and neurons that kept memory and basic brain function degrade, until there is nothing left but a husk. Regardless of how wonderfully complex, and amazing, the brain is, when it's gone, it's gone.

Sorry.
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Old September 11 2013, 07:03 AM   #142
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Re: What Happens After Death

bbjeg wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Nothing happened to me before I existed. Nothing will happen when I'm done existing.
Why?

All I hear when that statement is spoken is "I wont exist, because I existed."
Define “I.”
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Old September 11 2013, 07:09 AM   #143
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Re: What Happens After Death

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Old September 11 2013, 02:30 PM   #144
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Re: What Happens After Death

bbjeg wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Nothing happened to me before I existed. Nothing will happen when I'm done existing.
Why?

All I hear when that statement is spoken is "I wont exist, because I existed."
Then your hearing is seriously messed up, because that's not what I said at all.
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Old September 11 2013, 03:52 PM   #145
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Re: What Happens After Death

J. Allen wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post

But that's you right now experiencing not being able to remember something. You compare your current state with your past state. Constantly. And are aware of yourself.

Death is not comparable to that.
I agree with JarodRussell and share his puzzlement in non-existence post-existence.

I believe the brain is more complex than people give it credit for (I know, right?). The electronic signature given off by a brain during existence is unique in every individual, no one experiences life the same as anyone else. Before a brain exists, the unique signature it will later give off would have never existed in reality. A perception of the universe unique to one, generated electrically, can't just be lumped into the same category as pre-existence for me, though comparing after-life to pre-life always seemed like an 'earth is flat' statement to me anyway.
No. When a brain dies, the electric signals die as well. No more oxygen, no more blood, no more electrical signal generation. The brain becomes defunct. The electrical processes and neurons that kept memory and basic brain function degrade, until there is nothing left but a husk. Regardless of how wonderfully complex, and amazing, the brain is, when it's gone, it's gone.

Sorry.
I'm not quite sure why you're apologetic, but look at it this way. If I turn on a lamp, put a glow-in-the-dark pad under it, and then brake the lamp so it couldn't generate light anymore, the pad will still glow (for a time), and not stop simply because the thing that generated it's energy ceases to be. Just because the lamp can no longer produce light, doesn't mean it didn't produce light in the past. Of course, if a brain is damaged, it may physically loose retained information, even perceive existence differently, but I don't think that means the energy produced by the brain yesterday ceases to exist.

Is there anything in nature, energy-wise, that ceases to exist after existing? I looked into theories behind the 'conservation of information', but was only left with more questions.
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Old September 11 2013, 03:58 PM   #146
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Re: What Happens After Death

What they mean is the energy dissipates as thermal energy as the cells break down, simply warming the matter around it, be it the air, cuffin lining or soil, and from there simply moves on as any transmitted heat does.

They don't mean it stops existing, but it breaks down into heat, minor static charges etc that dissipates.
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Old September 11 2013, 04:10 PM   #147
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Re: What Happens After Death

In an infinite universe, it would be necessary for there to exist at some place and at some future time, an energy pattern exactly identical to the one that defines "you" right at this moment. One theory is that this could occur when matter is nearing infinite density just before the Big Crunch, for instance.

Would such a pattern believe itself to "be" you? Even if it did, would the actual "you" have any awareness of it?
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Old September 11 2013, 04:17 PM   #148
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Re: What Happens After Death

When the electrical currents in your brain--the actions of which generate the brain waves we can measure--stop, you are brain dead. Your existence ceases. Your consciousness ends and your perceptions are null and void.

Energy is indeed neither created nor destroyed, but simply changes form. Once your brain ceases functioning and the energy leaves, your conscious existence doesn't continue in some other form. It can't, because it only exists within the physical structure of your physical brain.
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Old September 11 2013, 04:47 PM   #149
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Re: What Happens After Death

Can I be said to be the same person as I was last week? Yesterday? A second ago? I remember some of the thoughts I had at those times, but what makes me suppose there is any real continuity? What if we exist only in the perpetual "now", constantly ceasing to exist and being replaced by a slightly different thought pattern, and continuity of consciousness is nothing more than an illusion?
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Old September 11 2013, 05:04 PM   #150
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Re: What Happens After Death

Lindley wrote: View Post
In an infinite universe, it would be necessary for there to exist at some place and at some future time, an energy pattern exactly identical to the one that defines "you" right at this moment. One theory is that this could occur when matter is nearing infinite density just before the Big Crunch, for instance.

Would such a pattern believe itself to "be" you? Even if it did, would the actual "you" have any awareness of it?
Are you saying some alien has (or will have) my job, took the same steps I did throughout life, lives on a planet they call earth, has/will chat on a "What Happens After Death" thread with a poster named Lindley, and perceives existence "exactly" the same as I do?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
When the electrical currents in your brain--the actions of which generate the brain waves we can measure--stop, you are brain dead. Your existence ceases. Your consciousness ends and your perceptions are null and void.
I understand that. After a brain stops functioning, it can no longer perceive, nor build new memories.
Energy is indeed neither created nor destroyed, but simply changes form.
That's where I'm lost. What happens to the energy my brain produced yesterday, not just heat, but if I burn my hand, the section of my brain's flaring in response to it, or the information my brain generated from it?
Once your brain ceases functioning and the energy leaves, your conscious existence doesn't continue in some other form. It can't, because it only exists within the physical structure of your physical brain.
I'm not saying after we die we go to heaven, hell, or something like it (if that's what you're taking from my post), I'm asking what happens to all that energy a brain produces in a lifetime after it's unable to produce more energy.
Lindley wrote: View Post
Can I be said to be the same person as I was last week? Yesterday? A second ago? I remember some of the thoughts I had at those times, but what makes me suppose there is any real continuity? What if we exist only in the perpetual "now", constantly ceasing to exist and being replaced by a slightly different thought pattern, and continuity of consciousness is nothing more than an illusion?
I agree. No one is the same a second after being, each state will be unique (I'm not the guy I was a second ago, I existed a second longer).
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