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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

View Poll Results: What is wrong with "Genesis"?
It's science is flawed - (d)evolution doesn't work like that 14 22.58%
I am a creationist - (d)evolution is a falsehood 2 3.23%
It is simply a rubbish episode 13 20.97%
I love it 33 53.23%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 9 2013, 10:36 PM   #16
Makarov
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

It's a fun episode that manages to be scary/creepy, without screwing with canon stuff like that voyager salamander ep. I like it.
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Old September 9 2013, 11:58 PM   #17
sariel2005
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

It's a fun episode that manages to be scary/creepy, without screwing with canon stuff like that voyager salamander ep. I like it.
Although they screwed with canon a couple of episodes earlier when they changed Spot into a female in preparation for the episode
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Old September 10 2013, 12:01 AM   #18
R. Star
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Well, I always figured Spot was female because of those lines and the rest was just... miscasting.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:38 AM   #19
MikeS
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

sariel2005 wrote: View Post
on Blip Sfdebris has a review that points out the many varied problems with the episode in his Opinionated reviews.

Makes some good points both on the bad science and the structuring of the episode.
Do you have a link?
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Old September 10 2013, 04:58 PM   #20
sariel2005
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

sariel2005 wrote:
on Blip Sfdebris has a review that points out the many varied problems with the episode in his Opinionated reviews.

Makes some good points both on the bad science and the structuring of the episode.

Do you have a link?

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t271.asp
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Old September 10 2013, 05:28 PM   #21
JirinPanthosa
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I like Genesis, don't care about the science in it.

I don't think that in any episode the concept of evolution has been used correctly. There is no path forwards or backwards, you cannot suddenly evolve or de-evolve.
This.

Evolution goes in the direction that increases survival and reproduction odds at the time in the environment you're in. It's not some predetermined track.

But the biggest problem that all scifi is pretty much guilty of, changing your DNA does not instantly change you into how you would look like if you were born with that DNA. You'd just start producing the wrong proteins which would probably result in death.
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Old September 10 2013, 05:39 PM   #22
Ugly Sweater
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

It's an episode that ignores the impact actions have on people and the reality of the situation the Enterprise is in. It's an episode that systemic to every. Single. Problem with Voyager. It's no surprise the episode was solely written by Brannon Braga the kind of "it doesn't matter after 45 minutes episodic television."

Consider that the Enterprise has on it over 1000 persons a number of whom are civilians and children. ALL of these people were "de-evolved." You can't have something like this happen without considering the *real* impact it'd have on people and lives.

Beverly was sprayed with a paralytic venom that necessitates reconstructive surgery on her face.

Worf, and presumably Riker, both KILLED PEOPLE in their altered forms.

Riker's brain was made "much smaller" by this infection and presumably this goes for everyone else. This means parts of the brain were MISSING. Parts of the brain that contain memories, learnings and experience.

Individuals do not evolve, species do. Over the course of EONS.

This was all kicked off by an absent-minded hypospray shot from Beverly.

All of this happens, people are killed, brains are destroyed, faces are destroyed and all of this happens over the course of a couple of days.

At the end? Everyone shrugs, laughs a bit at Barclay's insecurities and life goes on as if something very damn serious hadn't just happened.

Fuck-you Brannon Braga.
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Old September 10 2013, 05:40 PM   #23
JarodRussell
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Now now, don't pull an Orci.
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Old September 10 2013, 06:18 PM   #24
R. Star
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Wow, if you're physically hating the producers personally over that... it's probably time to take a step back. I may be critical of a lot of their work, but beyond that I'm sure he's a great guy.
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Old September 10 2013, 06:38 PM   #25
Gojira
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

I am mixed about the episode. It does come across as hokey, the science is strange but the performances everyone gave are very good and the make-up and special effects are also well done.
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Old September 11 2013, 06:49 PM   #26
Admiral2
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
It's an episode that ignores the impact actions have on people and the reality of the situation the Enterprise is in. It's an episode that systemic to every. Single. Problem with Voyager. It's no surprise the episode was solely written by Brannon Braga the kind of "it doesn't matter after 45 minutes episodic television."

Consider that the Enterprise has on it over 1000 persons a number of whom are civilians and children. ALL of these people were "de-evolved." You can't have something like this happen without considering the *real* impact it'd have on people and lives.

Beverly was sprayed with a paralytic venom that necessitates reconstructive surgery on her face.

Worf, and presumably Riker, both KILLED PEOPLE in their altered forms.

Riker's brain was made "much smaller" by this infection and presumably this goes for everyone else. This means parts of the brain were MISSING. Parts of the brain that contain memories, learnings and experience.

Individuals do not evolve, species do. Over the course of EONS.

This was all kicked off by an absent-minded hypospray shot from Beverly.

All of this happens, people are killed, brains are destroyed, faces are destroyed and all of this happens over the course of a couple of days.

At the end? Everyone shrugs, laughs a bit at Barclay's insecurities and life goes on as if something very damn serious hadn't just happened.

Fuck-you Brannon Braga.
I offer the following rebuttal.

"Genesis" is the best goddamned episode of The Next Generation that was ever broadcast!

Up until that time my general impression of The Next Generation was, even though it was entertaining, it spent most of its time being preachy, condescending and just all around full of its own importance, like it had nothing better to do than give an ethics lecture every week.

Then came "Genesis," and for the first time in the whole series run, it was an episode that was just fun! Blind, stinking, unadorned fun! I sat there at the end of the episode, far from thinking it was forgettable, wondering how the pompous stuffed shirts that made the rest of the series let this one slip past the enjoyment censor!

The science is silly? People, this is the show where in one episode the ship had a baby!!! It's not like TNG was ever a hard science book brought to life on the screen!

Hate on the episode all you like, but letting the half-ass science suck the life out of it for you is just the height of pedantry.

"Fuck you?" No, thank you very much, Mr. Braga.
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Last edited by Admiral2; September 11 2013 at 09:46 PM.
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Old September 11 2013, 07:13 PM   #27
WillsBabe
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

I'm afraid I never care whether the science is accurate or not in film and tv. That's just the way it is for me. I think this episode is a great romp. I like it.
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Old September 14 2013, 01:47 AM   #28
JirinPanthosa
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

I give the episode a C+. The science is stupid but I don't give a crap about science in Star Trek. In science fiction you just accept that all diseases can be cured completely over a few hours and DNA is magic shapeshifting juice.

I do agree though that there needed to be more reprocussions. Not from brains shrinking or things like that, but the fact that a few hundred of the crew should have been murdered and in some cases eaten by their friends. Worf should have spent the next week vomiting red fabric.

And ignoring the science, parts of the episode were staged poorly. That guy who got a claw across his chest? Why was he sitting at his console?! Even if for some reason he didn't run for his life when a giant animal crewmember was bearing down on him, how could the animal have clawed him from behind his console? And what happened between Worf getting a venom sac and Picard showing up? Apparently everybody panicked immediately, nobody sent out any kind of distress or warning signal, nobody tries to lock the ship down or anything to protect the crew from each other. They reacted with the competency of the first ship to get killed by the weird disease before the Enterprise found them.
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Old September 14 2013, 02:03 AM   #29
Ugly Sweater
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Apparently everybody panicked immediately, nobody sent out any kind of distress or warning signal, nobody tries to lock the ship down or anything to protect the crew from each other.
IIRC, Riker tried to send out a distress signal but his caveman brain couldn't remember the commands/codes to give the computer to do it. Good thing those parts of his brain grew back into existence!
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Old September 15 2013, 11:32 PM   #30
Nebusj
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Re: The hate at "Genesis"

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
This was all kicked off by an absent-minded hypospray shot from Beverly.
This is actually the part that most bugs me. The hypospray accident is the sort of thing that happens all the time; the resulting consequence is just too much. It's controlled because they had the good fortune to be on a starship when it happened. But suppose it'd happened on a planet, say, on Earth with billions and billions of people and thousands of ships coming and going daily. The whole galaxy would get ravaged with this devolutionary virus.

And this scale of accident happens, all the time. It suggests a universe that's teetering so close to destruction that the tiniest carelessness can't be had.

That's tolerable, I suppose, for a Space Opera where all emotions, consequences, actions are to be huge things, but it fits badly for the Next Generation universe where stuff should be at least somewhat more fault-tolerant.

I've got similar problems with that one where the video game ``Tubas Eating Necco Wafers'' threatens to take over the galaxy.
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