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View Poll Results: was V'Ger related to the Borg?
Y 9 10.34%
N 78 89.66%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 28 2013, 04:50 AM   #46
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

^ And it has a plan.
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Old August 28 2013, 05:19 AM   #47
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

I like the idea of V'ger being related to the Borg, but not necesssarily directly so. If the machine planet were a different offshoot of the same tech that the Borg came from, they'd be cousins, enough to explain Spock's situation in the Shatnerverse without making either one causative of the other.
Even better than saying it is or isn't is making fans wonder...
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Old August 28 2013, 06:08 AM   #48
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Since their dogmas don't come close to matching up (V'Ger was to see all it can see, learn all it can learn and return that information to the creator, whilst the Borg seek to achieve dominance and perfection through the assimilation of other species and their technology) I'd say that the two have nothing to do with one another.

If V'Ger was of Borg origin why wasn't it swarming with drones, assimilating every planet and ship it came across? Ilia Probe wasn't an assimilated version of Lieutenant Ilia but an artificial life-form in her image, which the Borg doesn't do--they combine organic with cybernetic (then even did it in reverse when they tried to entice Data to join them). Even Decker's merging with V'Ger wasn't any kind of assimilation more a symbiotic joining of its knowledge and power with his imagination and creativity.
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Old August 29 2013, 07:11 PM   #49
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

TOS Battlestar Galactica Cylons were also supposed to be cybernetically enhanced intelligent lizards that had multiple brains (with the Imperious Leader having three brains, to connect him with the greater Cylon "hive mind"). There are references to the "Cylon Alliance" in script form and even a few in-dialog of a greater empire composed of other species, ruled and/or assimilated by Cylon tech (like the Ovions). Then the mentally challenged censors and network suits got a hold of the show and made them purely mechanical, lessening the impact, because we shouldn't see our heroes shooting other living beings, even in self-defense.

Cylons don't predate the Cybermen and certainly not the Zoromes, but they do predate the Borg, and the concept of cybernetic assimilation is not exactly an original concept in general sci-fi.
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Old August 29 2013, 11:08 PM   #50
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

No, Sir, I don't like it.
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Old August 30 2013, 02:56 AM   #51
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Since their dogmas don't come close to matching up (V'Ger was to see all it can see, learn all it can learn and return that information to the creator, whilst the Borg seek to achieve dominance and perfection through the assimilation of other species and their technology) I'd say that the two have nothing to do with one another.
Exactly. The Borg could not have cared less who created them. (Assuming they even remembered which species was their original.) They only cared about themselves. V'Ger was always driven by the directive to serve its creator.
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Old September 1 2013, 06:57 PM   #52
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Since their dogmas don't come close to matching up (V'Ger was to see all it can see, learn all it can learn and return that information to the creator, whilst the Borg seek to achieve dominance and perfection through the assimilation of other species and their technology) I'd say that the two have nothing to do with one another.

If V'Ger was of Borg origin why wasn't it swarming with drones, assimilating every planet and ship it came across? Ilia Probe wasn't an assimilated version of Lieutenant Ilia but an artificial life-form in her image, which the Borg doesn't do--they combine organic with cybernetic (then even did it in reverse when they tried to entice Data to join them). Even Decker's merging with V'Ger wasn't any kind of assimilation more a symbiotic joining of its knowledge and power with his imagination and creativity.
And you think exactly the same as your cousin? If they're related, say by a common connection to the machine planet, where the machine planet upgraded both of them at different times, then they'd be recognizable to each other as distant kin, yet be totally different ideologically. Yours was a false argument.
Different ideas do not equate to no relationship. Doesn't make them related, it just doesn't have anything to do with whether they are or are not.
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Old September 2 2013, 10:03 AM   #53
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Darkwing wrote: View Post
I like the idea of V'ger being related to the Borg, but not necesssarily directly so. If the machine planet were a different offshoot of the same tech that the Borg came from, they'd be cousins, enough to explain Spock's situation in the Shatnerverse without making either one causative of the other.
Even better than saying it is or isn't is making fans wonder...
Sounds like the "Small Universe" syndrome to me.

Any time two things have even the smallest thing in common, then it's because they're connected in some way...
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Old September 2 2013, 11:06 AM   #54
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Darkwing wrote: View Post
And you think exactly the same as your cousin? If they're related, say by a common connection to the machine planet, where the machine planet upgraded both of them at different times, then they'd be recognizable to each other as distant kin, yet be totally different ideologically. Yours was a false argument.
Different ideas do not equate to no relationship. Doesn't make them related, it just doesn't have anything to do with whether they are or are not.
The question being posed was whether the Borg created V'Ger, not if they both had a connection to a separate machine world, which was the question I was answering.

As for the same world having a connection to both, it seems highly doubtful. Why would the machine planet adapt the two of them with very different technology and operations? Neither V'Ger nor the Borg evolved, V'Ger needed to meld with Decker in order to do that but before that point it was operating on the same principles it'd launched from Earth with. Meanwhile, the Borg don't evolve, they assimilate, adding unique knowledge and technology to themselves through force, which seems to be their MO for as far back as canon sources go.

There is no common ground between them, nothing we've seen has shown any possible connection. It sound like trying to apply 'intelligent design' to something that has none.

As for my "false argument", it is merely another way of looking at the matter--which is the purpose of discussion boards--based on my own thoughts on the subject.
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Old September 3 2013, 01:28 AM   #55
Nine of Four
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Not everything in Trek has to be intertwined.....
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Old September 3 2013, 02:19 AM   #56
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

I dont think the Borg created V'ger.

Whether or not V'ger created the Borg is a better question imho :P
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Old September 10 2013, 02:44 AM   #57
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

The fact is that the concept of the Borg was envisioned nearly a decade after V'Ger. They had nothing to do with each other.

Think about how long it would have taken for the Voyager space probe to drift to the delta quadrant???
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Old September 10 2013, 06:41 AM   #58
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Think about how long it would have taken for the Voyager space probe to drift to the delta quadrant???
.

Voyager disappeared into what "they" used to call a black hole.
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Old September 10 2013, 07:39 AM   #59
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

I say yes, as it was in 'William Shatner: The Return' book.
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Old September 10 2013, 02:49 PM   #60
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Think about how long it would have taken for the Voyager space probe to drift to the delta quadrant???
.

Voyager disappeared into what "they" used to call a black hole.
This is true. So it could have wound up anywhere.
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