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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 8 2013, 08:28 AM   #136
CrazyMatt
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

It was shot in 4:3, so I want it in 4:3. If I'm paying for it, I want all of it!

If you want to see it in 16:9, just resize the picture manually. What's so tough about that?
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Old September 8 2013, 08:54 AM   #137
DonIago
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

As has been discussed that's a bit misleading, since it's safe to assume a decent 16:9 cropping wouldn't always focus on whatever was dead center.

That said, I'm not interested in such a cropping in any case, beyond a certain academic curiosity.
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Old September 8 2013, 01:44 PM   #138
Dream
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

TOS remastered has already been rerun in widescreen. Where is the topic discussing that in the TOS forum?

Here it is:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=35852'

Trekmovie articles:
http://trekmovie.com/2007/07/31/tos-...reen-in-japan/
http://trekmovie.com/2011/09/28/tng-...d-is-official/
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Old September 8 2013, 04:54 PM   #139
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
It was shot in 4:3, so I want it in 4:3. If I'm paying for it, I want all of it!

If you want to see it in 16:9, just resize the picture manually. What's so tough about that?
Why release them in HD, doesn't your TV come with an upscaler? Just as good, right?

EDIT: Y'know what, not a great example, and even if it was unnecessarily snotty, pretend I didn't write that if you could be so kind....

Last edited by Mr. Adventure; September 8 2013 at 05:18 PM.
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Old September 8 2013, 06:15 PM   #140
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

Dream wrote: View Post
TOS remastered has already been rerun in widescreen
The first time I saw it just seemed wrong but it took me a minute to realise why. Everything looked too big and cramped in the frame as though it'd been shot too close. Cropping to 16:9 just ruined the composition of the frame and made me reach for my old 4:3 DVDs.
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Old September 9 2013, 01:26 AM   #141
SpHeRe31459
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

Dream wrote: View Post
TOS remastered has already been rerun in widescreen. Where is the topic discussing that in the TOS forum?

Here it is:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=35852'

Trekmovie articles:
http://trekmovie.com/2007/07/31/tos-...reen-in-japan/
http://trekmovie.com/2011/09/28/tng-...d-is-official/
I actually already mentioned that earlier in this topic, that TOS-R was broadcast in Japan in 16:9.
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Old September 9 2013, 10:41 AM   #142
Robert Comsol
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
I believe the US was slower adopting widescreen than other countries which may have been a factor. I'm going off memory and hearsay but I believe Europe had widescreen CRTs before HD but in the US widescreen only came with HDTV.
Your memory serves you well. Widescreen (standard resolution) CRT TVs were introduced in Europe in the 1990's, widescreen HD CRT TVs were introduced in Japan in the early 1990's. The Japanese had come up with their analogue MUSE HiVision HD Format, but the Americans didn't want to adopt that as they saw digital technology show up at the horizon and rather wanted to wait.

But, as a matter of fact, by 1987 there was talk in the entertainment industry (including Paramount Studios, no doubt) about the future "wide-screen" television where the original US approach favored an aspect ratio of 15:9 or 1.66:1.

In a non Star Trek related AV forum one guy claimed he had talked to Rick Berman and Brent Spiner and according to one or both them the TNG DPs had been supposedly asked to composite their images in a fashion that could enable a future widescreen extraction but not all directors adhered to that.

But, of course, since nobody mentioned it yet, it might be a good thing to actually ask several of the original TNG directors of photography if that is true rather than to assume that 4:3 is all they ever did or wanted.
And how they like to see their work presented on a flat widescreen.

Bob
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Old September 9 2013, 11:48 AM   #143
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Takeru wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
In September 2011 Robert Meyer-Burnett twittered that he had seen a 16:9 reformatted episode study (I assume "Sins of the Father"), that it looked great, and 16:9 would probably win "by a landslide" if fans were given the choice to vote.
16:9 will always win by a landslide in a public vote because most people know shit about aspect ratios.
The same people I knew who hated home video releases I in widescreen letterbox format now hate movies released in 4:3. It seems no matter what TV formats come out, they just want to see less of the picture.

I've heard people say the black bars on the side of the screen are distracting. Well, yes, black bars are visible, but so are the sides of your TV and part of your living room wall. Is seeing those too distracting also?

I think that has more to do with the TV rather than aspect ratio.

When most people had 4:3 TV's some disliked WS releases. (Even when I had a 4:3 TV I favoured films in WS). Now that most have WS TV's 4:3 is disliked.

Due to black bars. But after a while you don't notice them. On either format of TV
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Old September 9 2013, 01:06 PM   #144
Robert Comsol
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

MacLeod wrote: View Post
When most people had 4:3 TV's some disliked WS releases. (Even when I had a 4:3 TV I favoured films in WS). Now that most have WS TV's 4:3 is disliked.
Essentially true, but from a videophile's point of view it's a little more complicated.

James Cameron authorized the 4:3 release of The Abyss (hopefully by the end of this year finally available in HD on Blu-ray) both in widescreen (i.e. 2.35:1 letterboxed) and a director-approved Pan & Scan 4:3 version.

His argument (in a letter accompanying the Pan & Scan LaserDisc box): film has a resolution exceeding current FullHD and 4K UltraHD. Go for letterbox and you'll even loose more picture resolution, facial "body language" and other details get lost.

Go for Pan & Scan and you get optimal detail resolution within the restraints of 4:3, but you'll loose picture information left and right.

Given the FullHD resolution of contemporary flat screens, we get the original 4:3 TNG picture but not the full image resolution (in terms of overall picture detail).

I think the general issue many fans would be having with a reformatted and trimmed widescreen release of TNG is that they would know and possibly notice that previous picture information is missing. I sympathize.

When Cameron's Titanic was released in 2.35:1 widescreen I knew that that film had been shot with Super35 cameras and that the black bars at the top and (especially) bottom were covering up image information, which wasn't fully revealed until the 3D "open matte" re-release version.
I don't know if I still want to watch the "matted" 2.35:1 version.

Please don't feel offended but I think the inevitable loss of picture information is at the core of this debate on behalf of 4:3 since it began two years ago.
I frankly can't imagine the majority of 4:3 advocates stitting in front of their screens when watching TNG and marveling at the stunning image compositions of the TNG DPs...

Bob
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Old September 9 2013, 03:35 PM   #145
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I frankly can't imagine the majority of 4:3 advocates stitting in front of their screens when watching TNG and marveling at the stunning image compositions of the TNG DPs...
I don't think you have to marvel at something to think it's superior to something else. TNG just looks better in 4:3, because it was composed that way.
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Old September 11 2013, 05:22 AM   #146
Mr. Adventure
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

Anyone see this commerical yet? Couldn't help but think of this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DpJeIYxEo&t=0m24s

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Old September 11 2013, 05:38 AM   #147
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I frankly can't imagine the majority of 4:3 advocates stitting in front of their screens when watching TNG and marveling at the stunning image compositions of the TNG DPs.
Maybe not, but I frequently marvel at the horrible 16x9 versions of old TV shows I see from time to time. I've seen various examples of '80s and '90s dramas and sitcoms and they are almost all terrible. Cramped close-ups, credits skirting the edge of frame, opening credits pillar-boxed because they just couldn't make them fit without losing important info...the list goes on.
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Old September 11 2013, 01:01 PM   #148
Robert Comsol
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

These horrible 16:9 versions are mostly the result of just zooming up the existing 4:3 image (as some have suggested to do by remote control to satisfy those in want of TNG widescreen ) but here it would / should take more amount of work, especially when to apply zoom (e.g. wide shots of bridge scenes) or when to access unseen areas left and right on the camera negatives (e.g. close-up shots) as Maxwell Everett correctly pointed out.

A good argument on behalf of TNG in 16:9 (at least for the first season) would be that we could enjoy ILM's standard VFX footage in its widescreen glory, which is currently presented panned & scanned.

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; September 11 2013 at 03:29 PM.
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Old September 11 2013, 01:24 PM   #149
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

A very simple solution would be to include both carefully prepared widescreen and 4:3 versions on the Blurays.

Choice...
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Old September 11 2013, 03:00 PM   #150
Robert Comsol
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Re: Blu Rays Aspect Ratio Question

That's what I thought originally, but this would require the double amount of data storage space on a Blu-ray disc. It's not just to have black covering bars left and right of the 4:3 image but would require an extensive amount of reframing, horizontally and vertically.

James Cameron provided a film of the full Super35 camera negative from Terminator 2 and there you could see how the 2.35:1 and 4:3 extraction frames constantly moved.

According to my technical knowledge you can't do that on Blu-ray, yet.

Bob
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