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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 8 2013, 09:53 PM   #76
JWolf
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
But only if specifically on a thread about it. No book should be fair game in a thread not about it.
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Old September 8 2013, 10:06 PM   #77
JeBuS
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

JWolf wrote: View Post
Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
But only if specifically on a thread about it. No book should be fair game in a thread not about it.
If the thread is for a book further along the common timeline, why not?
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Old September 8 2013, 10:12 PM   #78
JD
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
JWolf wrote: View Post
Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
But only if specifically on a thread about it. No book should be fair game in a thread not about it.
If it's that old then it's fair game in any thread. It's easiest for everybody if we just have one uniform rule for every book and every thread. In situations like this it really is best if the rules are simple and uniform across the board. If things in a thread about a specific book don't need to be spoiler coded in that book's threads, then they shouldn't need to be spoiler coded in any threads.
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Old September 8 2013, 11:19 PM   #79
JWolf
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

JD wrote: View Post
Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
JWolf wrote: View Post
Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
But only if specifically on a thread about it. No book should be fair game in a thread not about it.
If it's that old then it's fair game in any thread. It's easiest for everybody if we just have one uniform rule for every book and every thread. In situations like this it really is best if the rules are simple and uniform across the board. If things in a thread about a specific book don't need to be spoiler coded in that book's threads, then they shouldn't need to be spoiler coded in any threads.
The reason they don't need to be in a spoiler code in their own thread is because of (Spoilers!) in the thread's title along with the name of the book. But to just have any book be open to being spoiled, then you will ruin things for a lot of people and this forum could very well die out because it will just seem that many don't care and those that do just won't come back.
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Old September 8 2013, 11:23 PM   #80
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

JWolf wrote: View Post
The reason they don't need to be in a spoiler code in their own thread is because of (Spoilers!) in the thread's title along with the name of the book. But to just have any book be open to being spoiled, then you will ruin things for a lot of people and this forum could very well die out because it will just seem that many don't care and those that do just won't come back.
I think the record player's broken again.

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Old September 8 2013, 11:27 PM   #81
JeBuS
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

You're never going to get everyone to agree about such things. So you can either give up on any and all efforts to implement a sweeping spoiler rule, or accept an absolute minimum rule.
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Old September 8 2013, 11:37 PM   #82
Sran
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

JeBuS wrote: View Post
You're never going to get everyone to agree about such things. So you can either give up on any and all efforts to implement a sweeping spoiler rule, or accept an absolute minimum rule.
That's been precisely my point, though. Not everyone has to agree. The mods run this site. Whatever they decide is what goes. Anyone who doesn't like what they decide can leave.

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Old September 8 2013, 11:39 PM   #83
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

Sran wrote: View Post
JeBuS wrote: View Post
You're never going to get everyone to agree about such things. So you can either give up on any and all efforts to implement a sweeping spoiler rule, or accept an absolute minimum rule.
That's been precisely my point, though. Not everyone has to agree. The mods run this site. Whatever they decide is what goes. Anyone who doesn't like what they decide can leave.

--Sran
I'm not arguing with you, honest. Just stating what should be blindingly obvious by now after all these pages of repeating the same arguments.
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Old September 8 2013, 11:48 PM   #84
Relayer1
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
I've been giving this some thought.

I'd say if a book 2 years old is 'spoiled' for you, that's just tough.

These threads are for enthusiasts and the majority read the novels soon after release. Six months seems fair with a decent leeway built in.

If you are over six months behind, put up with spoilers, catch up or stay out of the Literature threads. Otherwise you are expecting everyone to jump through hoops for your benefit.

I started the relaunch after Destiny reintroduced me to Treklit. After a while I left some of the novels and jumped forward to a point I could catch up from. I missed out Rising Son, Mission Gamma and a few others. I'll read them at some point - I couldn't give a toss about them being spoiled.
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Old September 9 2013, 03:40 PM   #85
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
I've been giving this some thought.

I'd say if a book 2 years old is 'spoiled' for you, that's just tough.

These threads are for enthusiasts and the majority read the novels soon after release. Six months seems fair with a decent leeway built in.

If you are over six months behind, put up with spoilers, catch up or stay out of the Literature threads. Otherwise you are expecting everyone to jump through hoops for your benefit.
Sounds fair to me.
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Old September 9 2013, 08:51 PM   #86
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

JD wrote: View Post
If it's that old then it's fair game in any thread. It's easiest for everybody if we just have one uniform rule for every book and every thread. In situations like this it really is best if the rules are simple and uniform across the board. If things in a thread about a specific book don't need to be spoiler coded in that book's threads, then they shouldn't need to be spoiler coded in any threads.
It's amazing how simple things are when they're set up just to suit you and people like you isn't it?

It'd be equally simple (and equally silly) to have a two-year cut-off or a five-year cut-off. Yes, your method is simplest and best if you're happy to exclude most of your potential audience.

A more sophisticated and sympathetic approach is needed if you want to try and be more inclusive. Notably people having a bit of sensitivity over things.

Destiny is a great series, well worth reading, and has some killer twists. It's a great place for newcomers to hop on board. But I'd never spoil those twists without marking them, because someone might be coming to this board cold looking into what to pick up. And there's rarely any need to go spoil that stuff.

I'm not suggesting every little thing be considered a spoiler, I'm not suggesting anything silly like spoiler-tagging threads about book 2 in a thread discussion book 3 (although that's actually the current rule if book 2 is less than six months old, which is all sorts of stupid). Just suggesting there be a 'don't be a prat' rule.

Sran wrote: View Post
That's been precisely my point, though. Not everyone has to agree. The mods run this site. Whatever they decide is what goes. Anyone who doesn't like what they decide can leave.

--Sran
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
I've been giving this some thought.

I'd say if a book 2 years old is 'spoiled' for you, that's just tough.
Yeah I get the message. "Frak off loser, you're not wanted here. Read quicker." That's why I pretty much left.

Interestingly enough that plus my big backlog of stuff to read has meant I've also pretty much stopped picking up the books too. When you're part of the community, when you engage with the authors, you tend to care more, you pick up to keep the line going and the authors supplied with gin.

You guys are aware that the line can't survive on just you few elites that can read books within 6 months (or even 1 or 2 years) of publication right? You're aware that by driving us from the community you're effectively killing the line right?

Because honestly, in a couple of years when they junk and reset the whole shared universe thing (you've seen the writing on the wall), it'll be your fault for attempting to drive away 90% of the audience for those books.
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Old September 9 2013, 09:13 PM   #87
JeBuS
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

Deano2099 wrote: View Post
Yeah I get the message. "Frak off loser, you're not wanted here. Read quicker." That's why I pretty much left.

Interestingly enough that plus my big backlog of stuff to read has meant I've also pretty much stopped picking up the books too. When you're part of the community, when you engage with the authors, you tend to care more, you pick up to keep the line going and the authors supplied with gin.

You guys are aware that the line can't survive on just you few elites that can read books within 6 months (or even 1 or 2 years) of publication right? You're aware that by driving us from the community you're effectively killing the line right?

Because honestly, in a couple of years when they junk and reset the whole shared universe thing (you've seen the writing on the wall), it'll be your fault for attempting to drive away 90% of the audience for those books.
I think this is a fallacious argument. If the members of this forum make up even 1% of the total market for TrekLit, it's already doomed.
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Old September 9 2013, 09:33 PM   #88
Scout101
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

Deano2099 wrote: View Post
Just suggesting there be a 'don't be a prat' rule.
Don't be a Prat is a good life rule in general, do we really need to formally document it? And if someone decides to ignore it, does a warning on a message board really deter them? We can create rules until it's impossible to interact at all here, but why? And for whatever rule/length of time you choose, there's someone further behind than you, so even when you eventually catch up, you can't discuss the book either...

Yeah I get the message. "Frak off loser, you're not wanted here. Read quicker." That's why I pretty much left.
First off, you're attempting to paint people in a bad light so you can respond. No one told you that.

At some point, though, there needs to be a way to discuss things that happened years ago, no? And if you're that far behind, it can't be helped. I've only watched the first few episodes of Dexter, I'm years behind. Doesn't mean that all Dexter threads must be in spoiler code. I either have to avoid them, or go in knowing it'll likely spoil things. that's on ME, not going to put it on everyone else. if i go into a Dexter thread, I get what I get. Even easier here, because you can choose to skip the forum, Dexter threads are in a greater TV forum that has lots of other things I AM current on...

You guys are aware that the line can't survive on just you few elites that can read books within 6 months (or even 1 or 2 years) of publication right? You're aware that by driving us from the community you're effectively killing the line right?
You're aware that we're a subset within a subset, right? If every person in the LIT forum quit Star Trek tomorrow, the publisher wouldn't even notice.

And not sure how reading a book within a year or two of release makes anyone elite...

Because honestly, in a couple of years when they junk and reset the whole shared universe thing (you've seen the writing on the wall), it'll be your fault for attempting to drive away 90% of the audience for those books.
90%? Even assuming we represent .001%, the subset you're trying to defend is what? 10% of that? So, a ten-thousandth? The couple people here who have bought multiple copies of a book make up for the like 5 sales they just cost S&S.

Even then, so what? Enjoyed the books when they were all stand-alone, when they were little mini-series, and now the whole shared universe. As long as we retain quality writers that tell interesting stories, i'm happy...
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Old September 9 2013, 11:02 PM   #89
Shane Houston
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

JWolf wrote: View Post
What I'm trying to is to clarify if it's OK or not to spoil a book not mentioned in the thread title. You've read or not the book in the topic and go into the thread and it the title does say (Spoilers!). But it doesn't say (Spoilers!) for a different book. So any spoilers for a different book should be in spoiler codes as that's not what's expected in the thread.

In the thread about The Fall: Revelation and Dust is a spoiler for DTI: Watching the Clock that is not using a spoiler code and then it gets quoted a few times. So it's rather difficult to avoid the spoiler for the book that should not have been spoiled in a thread about a different book. If you want to spoil a book, start a thread for it.

This is not an extreme reaction. It's perfectly logical. If a thread is on book a, don't then spoil book b. That (IMHO) is rude.
I'm the one that mentioned DTI: Watching The Clock in that thread. First, while it is an event that took place within the book, that particular instance was one small thread and while entertaining, doesn't affect the over all story. A fact you would know if you actually read the book.

Secondly, that book came out in May of 2011. 2 Years, 3 months, and 9 days ago. If you haven't read the book in all that time, what are you waiting for? According to all the hand ringing you've done over spoilers in books, it seems as if you aren't really interested in reading the novels, especially when that particular book was praised as one of the best of 2011. If not THE best book of that year.

It's been stated quite clearly from TPTB that 6 months is the time limit for using spoiler codes when discussing what happens within the novel. In the example of above, my discussing something that happened in DTI: Watching The Clock openly, after something more major was discussed up thread very openly that happened in a book, talking about something that happened more than two years ago, is not a big deal. Especially since what was discussed from DTI: Watching The Clock had little to do with the over all story except for the fact the character discussed made an appearance .

It seems to me that the only thing you are doing by beating this dead horse is attempting to suck the joy out of posting at TrekBBS for other people. Here's my advice, if you feel this way about being spoiled for books that are years old, then perhaps you should catch up you reading, and then return to the Lit section. For if you go into a thread marked with SPOILERS then you should already know you take the risk of being spoiled for the book about the thread and any book that came out before it, especially ones that came out more than 6 months ago.

I think it was very cool to be able to talk to the actual author of DTI: Watching The Clock about something he himself wrote, and have him put what he wrote in context and correct any assumptions I made that were wrong in regards to what happened in his book. In understanding what happened in book A that happened two years ago, it makes what happened in book B that much more enjoyable.
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Old September 10 2013, 12:06 AM   #90
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Re: Spoilers in Books: A Discussion.

Deano2099 wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Masiral wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock came out more than 2 years ago - I'd say that at this point, any "spoilers" from that book are fair game.
I've been giving this some thought.

I'd say if a book 2 years old is 'spoiled' for you, that's just tough.
Yeah I get the message. "Frak off loser, you're not wanted here. Read quicker." That's why I pretty much left.
Well, I was blunt, but that is not at all what I meant - I don't post like that.

Tough just means that's the risk you take, and it's the same for me. I'm not always up to date either, but you've got to draw a line somewhere...
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