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Old September 8 2013, 06:53 PM   #91
Gryffindorian
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Re: What Happens After Death

I'll say it again: faith makes me believe what I believe. Why do Muslims believe in Allah? Why did pagans worship animals and trees and celestial objects? One might say you can't know that God exists. But faith is a phenomenon that doesn't happen overnight. It's often ingrained in a person's being. What a person believes in usually takes years or decades of learning about religious doctrines and a lifetime of tradition and practices. The essence of faith becomes a part of a society's culture.

But enough about my faith. All I can say is, a lifetime of experiences and teachings has led me to believe what I believe in, and I derive spiritual fulfillment from that.

I'd like to hear about your beliefs.
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Old September 8 2013, 07:12 PM   #92
Timelord Victorious
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Re: What Happens After Death

I think my beliefs are boring to you. They don't include the supernatural.
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Old September 8 2013, 07:17 PM   #93
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Re: What Happens After Death

Don't fret. Everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, no matter how absurd or illogical they may be.
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Old September 8 2013, 07:19 PM   #94
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Re: What Happens After Death

Into Darkness wrote: View Post
What do you think happens to you after death? if you believe you have a soul or are a soul and continue to exist what do you believe comes next?
You die, get over it.
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Old September 8 2013, 07:23 PM   #95
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Re: What Happens After Death

Jax wrote: View Post
Into Darkness wrote: View Post
What do you think happens to you after death? if you believe you have a soul or are a soul and continue to exist what do you believe comes next?
You die, get over it.
That too. Perhaps a better question to ask people would be:

Who would go to your funeral? And what would everyone say about you?
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Old September 8 2013, 07:36 PM   #96
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Re: What Happens After Death

Timelord, I concur with you until this point:
Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Faith to me is an excuse to believe something beyond good reason.
I rather think that this is not a matter of cause and effect but both is the very same: in order to believe in something that can't be proved one has to have faith.


Though being an atheist myself I can see the emotional and moral advantages religious believes may have. People who believe in a deity that to some extent supervises their lives tend to be more relaxed in critical situations. They have what I would like to call "an emotional safety belt". Whatever happens to them, they have some kind of authority they can apply to, complain to, hope for or ask for help. While this may not have an immediate effect on the situation, it nevertheless helps them to cope with it.
The atheist must face all the problems of life alone. That makes us stronger but it does indubitably take a toll on our nerves, emotions and endurance.

I believe that this craving for assistance, the need to have a friend or a powerful ally, is what first caused people to invent religions. Not having to be alone is propably one of mankind's deepest desires and needs.


Another need is to be accepted the way we are. This goes for our believes (or lack of) as well. If we expect others to accept and respect our views on life, we must give them the same acceptance and respect.
As far as religion is concerned, we all have to agree upon the fact that we disagree. And frankly, it'd be a rather boring world if everyone believed the same.
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Old September 8 2013, 07:50 PM   #97
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Re: What Happens After Death

emotional and moral advantages religious believes may have
Religious people have no moral advantage at all, infact if they actually paid attention to what they really believe and the source material it comes from they probably have less moral advantage over atheists.
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Old September 8 2013, 08:06 PM   #98
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Re: What Happens After Death

Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
Another need is to be accepted the way we are. This goes for our believes (or lack of) as well. If we expect others to accept and respect our views on life, we must give them the same acceptance and respect.
As far as religion is concerned, we all have to agree upon the fact that we disagree. And frankly, it'd be a rather boring world if everyone believed the same.
Sure, though that doesn't mean we have to tiptoe around every bullshit believe people preach.
Of course we want to be respected for our believes and we definitely should respect the right of everyone to believe what he wants.
But then if I for some reason spout out total nonsense which I honestly believe myself, you better call me out on it and show me why I am wrong!
That's why I dig discussions like this.
Calling bullshit on something doesn't mean I disrespect someone. I just think he can do better.
And by that I don't mean adopt my point of view, but be more critical about his own.
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Old September 8 2013, 08:06 PM   #99
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Re: What Happens After Death

Well, even now, we are leaving marks in the timeline. The posts and letters we write, the causes we push for. The world records. This is as close to non-tech immortality as we ever get. Knowing that I did something, even if no one was able to see it--is now part of the timeline--for whatever that is worth...a good life is its own reward.

I did like that commerical with the old man.

"Grandpa--where do we go when we die?"

"The ground."
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Old September 8 2013, 08:58 PM   #100
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Re: What Happens After Death

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
Another need is to be accepted the way we are. This goes for our believes (or lack of) as well. If we expect others to accept and respect our views on life, we must give them the same acceptance and respect.
As far as religion is concerned, we all have to agree upon the fact that we disagree. And frankly, it'd be a rather boring world if everyone believed the same.
Sure, though that doesn't mean we have to tiptoe around every bullshit believe people preach.
Of course we want to be respected for our believes and we definitely should respect the right of everyone to believe what he wants.
But then if I for some reason spout out total nonsense which I honestly believe myself, you better call me out on it and show me why I am wrong!
That's why I dig discussions like this.
Calling bullshit on something doesn't mean I disrespect someone. I just think he can do better.
And by that I don't mean adopt my point of view, but be more critical about his own.
See, I'm not sure I understand the logic of your argument. To me, it sounds as if a person of faith has to justify his beliefs to a non-believer such as yourself.

It's like saying, "Hey, I speak English. Why do you speak Spanish?" To which I would answer, "Why NOT? I have no problem with your speaking English or whatever language you prefer. I don't expect you to speak my language. So what's the problem? " Faith is believing in the invisible and intangible. Would you deprive a little child of a fantasy of Santa Claus? Faith, or lack thereof, is part of one's identity. I'm not really an expert on religion, nor do I pretend to be. If you're curious about one's religious beliefs, I would recommend having a conversation with a priest, an imam, or a rabbi. Sadly, I don't have all the answers.
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Old September 8 2013, 09:14 PM   #101
Timelord Victorious
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Re: What Happens After Death

Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
Faith is believing in the invisible and intangible.
Yeah, and since it is invisible and intangible, why would you believe in it. It is indistinguishable from being made up fantasy.

Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
Would you deprive a little child of a fantasy of Santa Claus?
Yes, wouldn't you? Eventually I hope! The question is, at what point does it become inappropriate for a child to believe in Santa? At age 5? Age 8? Age 12? Maybe never? Why rob the child of that illusion if it makes the child happy, gives it hope and a moral framework to live by with a clear reward structure if it is good?
So why not reinforce the believe way into adulthood?

You probably don't do that, because you know at some point the child will figure it out on it's own by simple reasoning and while you keep trying to reinforce the believe system you brand yourself a liar in the process and the child will come to resent you for it or start to pity you.

Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
I'm not really an expert on religion, nor do I pretend to be. If you're curious about one's religious beliefs, I would recommend having a conversation with a priest, an imam, or a rabbi. Sadly, I don't have all the answers.
Good thing, we have those on the board. J.?

Last edited by Timelord Victorious; September 8 2013 at 10:55 PM.
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Old September 8 2013, 09:17 PM   #102
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Re: What Happens After Death

At your service.
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Old September 8 2013, 09:39 PM   #103
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Re: What Happens After Death

I think since nobody knows what happens after death and everyone has differing beliefs, this thread will only serve to spur religious debate...
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Old September 8 2013, 09:40 PM   #104
Gryffindorian
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Re: What Happens After Death

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
Faith is believing in the invisible and intangible.
Yeah, and since it is invisible and intangible, why would you believe in it. It is indistinguishable from being made up fantasy.
It's sad having a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge what's already been said about personal beliefs and choices. If you still don't get it, I'll just say faith is a cultural thing. If you can't live with that, then you're a Nazi. Again, this is just like being asked to justify why one would prefer to wear boxers to briefs. It's an exercise in futility.

Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
Would you deprive a little child of a fantasy of Santa Claus?
Yes, wouldn't you? Eventually I hope! The question is, at what point does it become inappropriate for a child to believe in Santa? At age 5? Age 8? Age 12? Maybe never? Why rob the child of that illusion if it makes the child happy, gives it hope and a moral framework to live by with a clear reward structure if it is good?
So why not reinforce the believe way into adulthood?
You're missing the point. Of course, when a child is old enough, he'll eventually figure out the truth about the Tooth Fairy, et al. But I was referring to little children whose belief in a jolly old fat guy in a red suit is part of the cultural observance of Christmas. Little ones in particular like the idea of a Santa Claus as part of the "magic" of Christmas.

Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
I'm not really an expert on religion, nor do I pretend to be. If you're curious about one's religious beliefs, I would recommend having a conversation with a priest, an imam, or a rabbi. Sadly, I don't have all the answers.
Godd thing, we have those on the board. J.?
Godd thing, Godd Almighty.
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Old September 8 2013, 10:45 PM   #105
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Re: What Happens After Death

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
I think since nobody knows what happens after death and everyone has differing beliefs, this thread will only serve to spur religious debate...
Nothing wrong with that. As long as everyone remains civil...we can't learn unless we hear and consider other people's beliefs.
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