RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,957
Posts: 5,391,266
Members: 24,722
Currently online: 511
Newest member: Jadakiss

TrekToday headlines

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Dorn To Voice Firefly Character
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

No ALS Ice Bucket For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Free Star Trek Trexels Game
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 5 2013, 07:54 PM   #46
KaraBear
Captain
 
KaraBear's Avatar
 
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

teya wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
You know, "Tattoo" is one of those episodes I just never got around to seeing (though I've got it on VHS somewhere). I think I can live with that.
The sad thing is, the B-story is the best Kes story ever. She's downright devious, in a fun way, and the interaction between her and the Doctor is terrific.

It's too bad they had to include it in what's easily my least-favorite episode of Star Trek ever.
that's true, the only time I think I ever actually kind of liked her and it's in a crap episode
KaraBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6 2013, 10:55 AM   #47
Orac
Admiral
 
Orac's Avatar
 
Location: Veridian III
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

I think "reset" episodes are cool.
__________________
"Sorry, miss. I was giving myself an oil-job."
- Robby the Robot (Forbidden Planet)

ENTER | TOS Avatar Contest #55: Assignment Earth
Orac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2013, 10:05 PM   #48
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

teya wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
Season 2 is without doubt the best Voyager season and the best season of all Star Trek series.

Most of the episodes are excellent, the only episodes that isn't that good is "Threshold" and it is at least funny to watch if you imagine it as a nightmare Janeway had after eating too much of Neelix's food.

My favorite episodes are "Cold Fire", Persistence of Vision" and "Alliances".
The only episode that isn't that good is "Threshold"?

Season 2 contains the episode that informs me that I'm descended from space aliens. I'm not completely human.

Star Trek manages to achieve justification for the European genocide of indigenous Americans. Well done! Glad you enjoyed that piece of garbage so much!
And all of a sudden, the whole thread turns into another "bash Lynx" thread! That's constructive!

I have told you over and over and over and over and over and over and over again during the last years that I didn't like the "Sky Spirits" concept at all. I have told you many times that I do also find that concept insulting to the American Indians and that I totally agree with your statements about it.

I have also written many times that I would have liked Chakotay's background story presented in another way.

But for some strange reason, you seem to forget that. I can't understand why. You do seem to have a good memory when it comes to many other Voyager aspects.

The reason that I don't totally axe "Threshold" is because I do find parts of Chakotay's background story interesting, his relation to his father and such. I also happen to like the subplot with The Doctor's simulated flu and how Kes prolonged that. I think this subplot actually saves the episode from a total disaster.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2013, 10:09 PM   #49
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

Oh come on Lynx, one inappropriate comment towards you doesn't constitute a "bash Lynx" thread. I actually like that Kes has such an ardent supporter and fan in you.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2013, 10:17 PM   #50
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

R. Star wrote: View Post
Oh come on Lynx, one inappropriate comment towards you doesn't constitute a "bash Lynx" thread. I actually like that Kes has such an ardent supporter and fan in you.
Thanks!

As for "bash Lynx" threads, well to quote Tom Paris: "It's a long story and I'm tired of telling it".

So I won't. I'll focus on more constructive things. As for Season 2, I really like it.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2013, 10:23 PM   #51
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

Fair enough, sir. I can't say I've noticed a "bash Lynx" trend, but then again such a trend wouldn't be aimed at me. I'm often critical of Voyager and I personally think season 2 is among the worst of it, but hey.. if you like it, more power to you.

Though most of my criticism towards Voyager is just... me being disappointed it wasn't so much better. It really had the potential to be the best of Trek.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2013, 10:43 PM   #52
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

^^
You'll need a time machine to find such bashing threads and they weren't so common here either.

This forum is peaceful and constructive.

As for our different opinions of Season 2, well it's different tastes I guess.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2013, 10:49 PM   #53
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

I liked "Twisted" simply for its weirdassness, which puts me in a minority.
__________________
Moe: I'll take the blonde!
Larry: I'll take the brunette!
Curly: I'll take the Black and Tan!
--Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2013, 10:51 PM   #54
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
You'll need a time machine to find such bashing threads and they weren't so common here either.

This forum is peaceful and constructive.

As for our different opinions of Season 2, well it's different tastes I guess.
Well that wouldn't be my first priority if I did have a time machine.

And it definitely wouldn't be the first case of my having differing opinions on Voyager. Ask teacake, Karabear or Brit on that.

It happens. Just out of curiosity.... what did you think of Fury? To me that episode just ruined Kes.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 12:41 AM   #55
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

I'm pretty sure Lynx would agree with you on that one. Actually, I'm pretty sure most of the civilized world would agree with you on that one.

Yeah, I'll admit there are certain frequent posters to this forum who I've become reluctant to engage with because if we disagree then it immediately seems to jump to broken record territory.

To be clear I'm not saying any party is wrong versus right. Just different opinions polarized in opposite directions. It gets tiresome.

It gets far worse than tiresome when people start taking (or making) it personal, though.

Examples - "Tuvix" and "Before Dishonor" - where I sometimes feel everything that can be said has been. Repeatedly.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 08:29 AM   #56
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

R. Star wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
You'll need a time machine to find such bashing threads and they weren't so common here either.

This forum is peaceful and constructive.

As for our different opinions of Season 2, well it's different tastes I guess.
Well that wouldn't be my first priority if I did have a time machine.

And it definitely wouldn't be the first case of my having differing opinions on Voyager. Ask teacake, Karabear or Brit on that.

It happens. Just out of curiosity.... what did you think of Fury? To me that episode just ruined Kes.
I hate "Fury"!

It's the most disgusting and insulting episode ever made for TV.

Not only did it totally ruin Kes, it was also a deliberate insult to the fans of the character.

There was a letter campaign going at that time, not created by me but another fan of Kes. The aim for the campaign was to send mails and letters to the Paramount in order to have Kes reinstated as a main character in the series again. The campaign resulted in thousands of letters and mails sent to those in charge of Star Trek Voyager.

The answer we got was "Fury". A finger up in our faces. "Eat this, you ungrateful idiots!"

I must admit that I still dislike Brannon Braga and Bryan Fuller for "Fury". Every time I see them involved in some project I cringe.

"Fury" had no logic, it was full of flaws, a badly written episode with the one and only purpose to humiliate and destroy a Star Trek character.

Personally I refuse to see the pathetic wreck in this episode as Kes. I see it as Suspiria in disguise or some being from a mirror universe or some evil spirit and who knows what.

And no, I will never watch that episode again. Once was enough and after watching it (fortunately I was warned by some nice friends in the US who had watched the episode some months before I got the opportunity) I was very close to throw out the TV from my window. Only sheer greed (TV:s are a bit expensive) and some concern about the people on the street below prevented me from doing it.

If I ever buy season 6 on DVD, I'll make sure that this episode is unwatchable on the disc.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com

Last edited by Lynx; September 8 2013 at 12:34 PM.
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 08:56 AM   #57
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

While I don't disagree with your assessment of the quality of the episode, you damage your own credibility with multiple statements that seem driven more by emotion than fact. Were they in any document I thought was supposed to be considered reliable I'd feel obligated to demand citations.

As is, I'll simply assume you're letting your personal opinions interfere with your objectivity and accuracy, which leads to a somewhat amusing but ultimately disappointing read.

Though the idea that 45 minutes of any level of television...and on only one channel...would be enough to drive someone to throw their television out the window is pretty damn hilarious.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 09:34 AM   #58
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

I thought people only threw their television sets out the window when watching politicians.

Each of the Berman-year shows seemed to have characters the writers could never get a handle on, so they would often display wide variations in personality. VOY just had more examples than any other show I think. There's split personality Janeway, let's go home no let's kick alien ass; Neelix trying to figure out what he can do that's useful this week so they don't kick him off the ship; and then sweet little Kes, who's so sweet we need to turn her into leather-suited ruler of a planet.
__________________
Moe: I'll take the blonde!
Larry: I'll take the brunette!
Curly: I'll take the Black and Tan!
--Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 12:52 PM   #59
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

DonIago wrote: View Post
While I don't disagree with your assessment of the quality of the episode, you damage your own credibility with multiple statements that seem driven more by emotion than fact. Were they in any document I thought was supposed to be considered reliable I'd feel obligated to demand citations.

As is, I'll simply assume you're letting your personal opinions interfere with your objectivity and accuracy, which leads to a somewhat amusing but ultimately disappointing read.

Though the idea that 45 minutes of any level of television...and on only one channel...would be enough to drive someone to throw their television out the window is pretty damn hilarious.
Well, even if we put my personal emotions aside and are trying to be objective, I would still find "Fury" a crap episode. I would have dislike it even if it had been another character who had been ruined in the same way as Kes was in that episode.

Even in my worst anti-Seven days, I wouldn't have dreamed about ruining that character in the same way.

The episode is simply bad. The whole scenario is unrealistic and totally wrong.

1. Why had Kes aged? If she had become some sort of Ocampa higher being in an afterlife which is the highest level for the Ocampa soul or so, she wouldn't have aged. She would have returned the same person as she left.

2. Why would she return to her previous level? It's said that becoming such an energy being is the highest level for the Ocampa. Why would she, as the only Ocampa dislike that paradise-like environment so much that she had to return to a previous level?

3. Why did she blame Janeway? It was her own decision to join the Voyager crew and during her whole time on Voyager she was happy and content with her life there.

4. Why would she want to destroy the ship and kill her friends there, the friends she did care so much about. The real Kes would never do such a thing. She would rather sacrifice herself than to harm any of her crewmates.

In the end of this pathetic excuse for an episode, she turns into a pathetic old wreck who wants to return to the place she left without remorse a long time ago. Now, where is the Kes who wanted to learn and explore, who wanted to go th Earth with the rest of the crew and maybe study at the Starfleet Academy? In other words, the real Kes!

This episode makes no sense. It has nothing to do with the ongoing Voyager timeline. It has no importance or influence at all to coming events of the series. It seems to be made with the one and only purpose to destroy a character in the worst possible way.

It's an episode which could easily be erased and no one would miss it.

And don't forget that Elvis did shoot at TV.s when he didn't like the program.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com

Last edited by Lynx; September 8 2013 at 04:59 PM. Reason: wrong spelling
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 8 2013, 03:49 PM   #60
Bad Thoughts
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Disguised as Reb Bad Thoughts
Re: Thoughts on Season 2

Lynx wrote: View Post
2. Why would she return to her previous level? It's said that becoming such an energy being is the highest level for the Ocampa. Why would she, as the only Ocampa dislike that paradise-like environment so much that she had to return to a pervious level?
I certainly share your frustration with this episode, but characters evolving to a higher plane is almost no better than death: writers paint themselves into a corner. I'm not surprised, for instance, that Wesley Crusher's dialogue was expunged from Nemesis as it would raise so many questions about why he would return to run the menial nightshift on the Titan in Nemesis. And if Sisko's return from the Celestial Temple had been depicted in the series, I would find it laughable if he took up again as a Starfleet officer. (Although it might make sense if he went back to cleaning clams.) Addressing Kes' return needed to be, in some sense, spectacular.

Now, I don't like to correct people's writing, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I laughed at the idea of Kes returning to her "pervier" self.
Bad Thoughts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:26 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.