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Old September 5 2013, 07:36 PM   #16
Tom
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

Wesley was still wet after exiting the holodeck in 'Encounter at Farpoint' so clearly the water was replicated. I agree that very basic things and anything that can possibly be ingested (water, food, etc..) would be replicated.
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Old September 5 2013, 09:05 PM   #17
Nine of Four
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

The water thing was probably an accident, but I could see it being replicated....
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Old September 6 2013, 02:16 AM   #18
The Old Mixer
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

^It was scripted. As I recall, Picard looks at him disapprovingly because he's dripping on the corridor floor, and Wesley says that he should get a towel.

Nobody's addressed my Barclay example. IQ-enhanced Barclay had the computer construct something in the holodeck that was so advanced that he had to explain to the computer how to make it.
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Old September 6 2013, 02:37 AM   #19
R. Star
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

Timo wrote: View Post
You can't really have a full medical staff of holograms (even for emergencies) as they take up a lot of space in the computer core
That was only problem with the Voyager holodoctor, who was allowed to grow unhindered. Holographic nurses could be extremely simple programs compared with holographic entertainment characters, yet very useful in an emergency.

As for replicating medical instrumentation quickly, a Cardassian food replicator quickly produced a working phaser that immediately started firing in "Civil Defense". This shouldn't be a bottleneck as such, then. It's more a question of how much you want to rely on equipment and facilities generated on demand in a combat situation where your generation abilities may be compromised. And it shouldn't be difficult to simply keep equipment in stock; the holodeck-simulated sickbay crashing in the middle of a situation might not be all that fatal a failure, either, provided the patients are at least held on physical beds or stretchers rather than flickering forcefields.

Timo Saloniemi
Seems to me it would be easier to have the EMH control any holo nurses directly with his own program, them being only the physical versions acting as he wants through a computer link or something. That'd speed things up as the "nurse" would be on the same page without them having to even talk.
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Old September 6 2013, 03:22 AM   #20
austen_pierce
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Did Trek ever establish in canon whether complex equipment could even be replicated. In TNG, I thought the answer was no.
It's a interesting question. There are things a replicator can't make at all (some pharmaceuticals), and other things that can be produced, but it takes the replicator time to do so. I can't remember a replicator making say a medical tricorder, I think it could, but how long to make dozens?

We're not talking about a cup of tea.

This HAS to be something that the writers had to grapple with. A device such as the replicator would need to have limits or some restrictions on use, lest it become the out for every problem the crew faced. Borg invasion? Just replicate ships! Data's dead? Replicate him... and so on.
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Old September 6 2013, 02:43 PM   #21
jpv2000
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
You can't really have a full medical staff of holograms (even for emergencies) as they take up a lot of space in the computer core
That was only problem with the Voyager holodoctor, who was allowed to grow unhindered. Holographic nurses could be extremely simple programs compared with holographic entertainment characters, yet very useful in an emergency.

As for replicating medical instrumentation quickly, a Cardassian food replicator quickly produced a working phaser that immediately started firing in "Civil Defense". This shouldn't be a bottleneck as such, then. It's more a question of how much you want to rely on equipment and facilities generated on demand in a combat situation where your generation abilities may be compromised. And it shouldn't be difficult to simply keep equipment in stock; the holodeck-simulated sickbay crashing in the middle of a situation might not be all that fatal a failure, either, provided the patients are at least held on physical beds or stretchers rather than flickering forcefields.

Timo Saloniemi
Seems to me it would be easier to have the EMH control any holo nurses directly with his own program, them being only the physical versions acting as he wants through a computer link or something. That'd speed things up as the "nurse" would be on the same page without them having to even talk.
Good point.
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Old September 6 2013, 03:37 PM   #22
bbjeg
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

I'm surprised no one covered this but what happens when the holodeck powers down during a heart transplant or malfunctions? With the EMH if he fails at least someone living can pick up where he left off (to the best of their abilities).

Last edited by bbjeg; September 6 2013 at 05:06 PM.
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Old September 6 2013, 05:20 PM   #23
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

^ Given that misspeaking a single command to the holodeck, can result in its creating a sentient being who tries to hijack your ship, I don't think I'd want to rely on it for my heart transplant.
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Old September 6 2013, 05:58 PM   #24
austen_pierce
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

CoveTom wrote: View Post
^ Given that misspeaking a single command to the holodeck, can result in its creating a sentient being who tries to hijack your ship, I don't think I'd want to rely on it for my heart transplant.
Touché.

They need UPS systems on starships. Think of a hospital today: they can't risk losing power during a orthoscopic / laparoscopic procedure. They could keep the gasoline generators in the shuttlebay and store the gasoline in the nacelles.

(... put put put put put put put ...)
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Old September 8 2013, 05:38 AM   #25
Darkwing
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

Good idea - transporters and replicators providing drugs and tech, forcefields providing beds and holo-nurses, with at least one instance of the EMH or some medic-trained personnel in charge, depending on whether it's used for triage or treatment. And for diseases, add in neural telepresence. The doctor is in one holodeck, in a hypnotic state on a couch, while they feel like they're in the other holodeck, treating contagious patients, but they're only a hologram there, so they can't catch anything.
Oh, and as for how much stuff can be replicated? At least a suit, gown, and loaded Tommygun can be made at once...
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Old September 8 2013, 07:58 AM   #26
Rarewolf
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

Didn't the Doctor in Seksa's Sabotaged Holoprogram try to administer a lethal injection?
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Old September 8 2013, 02:27 PM   #27
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

Timo wrote: View Post
You can't really have a full medical staff of holograms (even for emergencies) as they take up a lot of space in the computer core
That was only problem with the Voyager holodoctor, who was allowed to grow unhindered. Holographic nurses could be extremely simple programs compared with holographic entertainment characters, yet very useful in an emergency.
Depends - modern nurses are highly trained medical professionals in their own right, and an Emergency Medical Hologram Nurse would be at least comparable to the EMH Doctor in the complexity of integrating a requisite amount of medical knowledge.

On the other hand, the computer automatically does most of the monitoring/observation/recording that would be done by humans in the modern day. So if by "nurses" all you mean is "someone there to reassure the patients, follow the readouts and apply sticking plast--, uh, use a dermal regenerator" - i.e., stuff that could be done by a lay person anyway - that would be as easy as any other holoprogram, yeah.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Seems to me it would be easier to have the EMH control any holo nurses directly with his own program, them being only the physical versions acting as he wants through a computer link or something. That'd speed things up as the "nurse" would be on the same page without them having to even talk.
We never get any sign that the EMH Doctor can control multiple holobodies though, even in cases where he's overrun.

Darkwing wrote: View Post
And for diseases, add in neural telepresence. The doctor is in one holodeck, in a hypnotic state on a couch, while they feel like they're in the other holodeck, treating contagious patients, but they're only a hologram there, so they can't catch anything.
Wouldn't it be easier to have both doctor and patient (at either end of the line) replicated as physical holograms?

Darkwing wrote: View Post
Oh, and as for how much stuff can be replicated? At least a suit, gown, and loaded Tommygun can be made at once...
Well, Picard explicitly says the bullets are holographic.
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Old September 8 2013, 04:26 PM   #28
Darkwing
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

SoM wrote: View Post
Depends - modern nurses are highly trained medical professionals in their own right, and an Emergency Medical Hologram Nurse would be at least comparable to the EMH Doctor in the complexity of integrating a requisite amount of medical knowledge.
Um, no. Modern nurses range from medical assistants with slightly more knowledge than the layman to medical assistants with at least as much knowledge as a doctor. Not all nurses are the same, and it's a false idea to think holo nurses MUST and WILL be only the top end. .

On the other hand, the computer automatically does most of the monitoring/observation/recording that would be done by humans in the modern day. So if by "nurses" all you mean is "someone there to reassure the patients, follow the readouts and apply sticking plast--, uh, use a dermal regenerator" - i.e., stuff that could be done by a lay person anyway - that would be as easy as any other holoprogram, yeah.
As would MOST grades of nurse.


We never get any sign that the EMH Doctor can control multiple holobodies though, even in cases where he's overrun.
Hardware limits on VGR.

Darkwing wrote: View Post
Wouldn't it be easier to have both doctor and patient (at either end of the line) replicated as physical holograms?
First, the doctor would be a hologram on the patient's end, and second, what good does a holographic patient do? I don't grok at all.

Well, Picard explicitly says the bullets are holographic.
And that was tongue in cheek.
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Old September 9 2013, 02:06 AM   #29
Star Wolf
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

Melakon wrote: View Post
How large are sickbay facilities on modern warships today, where the standard crew complement is approximately 150?

If we consider starbases the equivalent of 1995 era hospitals, and the Galaxy-class ships as battleships/carriers, after adjusting for crew sizes, what would be on a vessel equivalent to Voyager?
I guess no sailors have gotten to this thread. From reading David Poyer's Cmdr Lenson novels for your Voyager equivalent I would say a couple of Hospital Corpmen. The carriers, Marine assault ships and purpose hospital ships would take transfers since there is really no operating alone like the post war Douglas Reeman books Royal Navy where a lone frigate might have a surgeon.

An Army battalion of 800 might only have a PA unless a reserve doctor is called up for triage at their aid station
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Old September 9 2013, 02:58 AM   #30
Darkwing
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Re: Emergency Sickbay Program?

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
I guess no sailors have gotten to this thread. From reading David Poyer's Cmdr Lenson novels for your Voyager equivalent I would say a couple of Hospital Corpmen. The carriers, Marine assault ships and purpose hospital ships would take transfers since there is really no operating alone like the post war Douglas Reeman books Royal Navy where a lone frigate might have a surgeon.

An Army battalion of 800 might only have a PA unless a reserve doctor is called up for triage at their aid station
Sailor here! Corpsman up!
Frigates and Destroyers usually have an Independent Duty Corpsman and a second corpsman. LPDs and similar smaller gators have a medical officer (useless) and several corpsmen. Carriers have full facilities.
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