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Old September 6 2013, 04:23 PM   #16
Brit
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Re: Borg royalty

As we say in Texas, y'all brace yourselves.

R. Star wrote: View Post
I always figured the Queen was just a function within the Collective, and they could choose any drone to fill the role. This would explain why death is but a minor inconvenience for her, and her appearance/behavior changes.
I agree with this. And you thought you would never see it. LOL

The Queen has to be "just another drone" and this is because ordinary drones are all the material the collective has to work with. I personally think that we saw three different Queens, and that there are more potential Queens available.

It doesn't make sense to have multiple Queens at the same time, she is "the one who speaks." She is kind of like "The Mouth of Sauron" from the Lord of the Rings, there is something or someone behind her pulling her strings. To me the Borg Collective, is a consolidation of minds controlled by a machine, it doesn't have empathy, and no imagination. It has the single slightness of a computer program set on figuring pi to the list digit. In this case apparently it is set on finding the Omega particle. It needs a interface, and that interface is the Queen.

I think the Queen is fascinating, there are these small tidbits scattered in the various Borg episodes through the different series. One of the last fan fictions I wrote used the point of view of the Queens themselves. I used canon references laced together with my own imagination. In the prolog I explained my theory of the Borg.

So for hundreds of years the Borg moved out in a terrible jihad that each Queen directed. She ruled until the degeneration of her brain rendered her useless. Then she was replaced, and what organic properties remained to her were absorbed back into the collective. In the end, she, like any other drone, became just one more source of raw material
http://www.jceternal.com/3queens.htm
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Old September 6 2013, 11:41 PM   #17
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Re: Borg royalty

Brit wrote: View Post
As we say in Texas, y'all brace yourselves.

R. Star wrote: View Post
I always figured the Queen was just a function within the Collective, and they could choose any drone to fill the role. This would explain why death is but a minor inconvenience for her, and her appearance/behavior changes.
I agree with this. And you thought you would never see it. LOL

The Queen has to be "just another drone" and this is because ordinary drones are all the material the collective has to work with. I personally think that we saw three different Queens, and that there are more potential Queens available.

It doesn't make sense to have multiple Queens at the same time, she is "the one who speaks." She is kind of like "The Mouth of Sauron" from the Lord of the Rings, there is something or someone behind her pulling her strings. To me the Borg Collective, is a consolidation of minds controlled by a machine, it doesn't have empathy, and no imagination. It has the single slightness of a computer program set on figuring pi to the list digit. In this case apparently it is set on finding the Omega particle. It needs a interface, and that interface is the Queen.

I think the Queen is fascinating, there are these small tidbits scattered in the various Borg episodes through the different series. One of the last fan fictions I wrote used the point of view of the Queens themselves. I used canon references laced together with my own imagination. In the prolog I explained my theory of the Borg.

So for hundreds of years the Borg moved out in a terrible jihad that each Queen directed. She ruled until the degeneration of her brain rendered her useless. Then she was replaced, and what organic properties remained to her were absorbed back into the collective. In the end, she, like any other drone, became just one more source of raw material
http://www.jceternal.com/3queens.htm
Hah, it was bound to happen sooner or later. Nice to know we don't butt heads on -everything- Trek.

Now I'm not sure I'd equate the Queen to the Mouth of Sauron. Then again I just saw the Mouth as a glorified messenger who clearly was doing the will of his boss. The Queen may be propped up by the Collective, but it does her bidding as well, a more symbiotic relationship.

Ever read the Destiny novels? They have an interesting take on the Borg Queen that I like, and is somewhat tragic.
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Old September 7 2013, 12:47 AM   #18
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Re: Borg royalty

The Borg Queen doesn't serve the will of the Collective, it IS the Collective. A puppet body controlled by the mind. Think of it as though your mind was put in the internet and controlled your original body by remote control.
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Old September 7 2013, 01:03 AM   #19
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Re: Borg royalty

R. Star wrote: View Post
Ever read the Destiny novels? They have an interesting take on the Borg Queen that I like, and is somewhat tragic.
Actually yes, and it is tragic, but truthfully I didn't care much for David Mack's explanation. I read them because I wanted to write a fan fiction set in the Destiny time line. My goal was to bring back Janeway in a plausible way and write a really good action / adventure while I was at it.

My problem began last May when I was in a really bad car accident. A woman in a F150 Ford pickup truck missed seeing a red light and my orange car. I was in ICU for three Days, the Hospital for another five days and in a Rehab for another two weeks. That will play havoc with your muse and for a good long time I couldn't write anything.

There are several plot devices that I didn't care for in those books, the biggest one being that the Caelier became the heroes in a very deus ex machina climax. Up to that moment the Caelier had no redeeming qualities. They were only shown as xenophobic bullies, there wasn't any growth of character first they were one thing and the next minute they were another. Actually that's my favorite kind of plot hole because the whole thing then becomes something I can explain and exploit in fiction. In other words I can provide the reason.

I think that is the difference between some fans, there are those that can point out the difficulties, the inconsistencies and state how they would do it better. I always see those as opportunities for fic. We all fix things in our own ways.

The first fic I ever wrote was a retelling of "Endgame", in my fic everything you saw happened, but I added thoughts and reasons and a whole lot more Borg lol.
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Old September 7 2013, 09:22 AM   #20
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Re: Borg royalty

I loved Destiny for the first one, the Erika Hernandez story. I remember getting teary during it.
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Old September 7 2013, 03:17 PM   #21
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Re: Borg royalty

teacake wrote: View Post
I loved Destiny for the first one, the Erika Hernandez story. I remember getting teary during it.
I think Erika Hernandez was the very best thing about those books, and the sad thing is that using the same plot lines with just a little more tweaking, she could have been the catalyst that solved the problems of the plot line. She had great character growth, but the only Caeliar to show the same growth was Inyx. Her interactions with the Caeliar could have provided that same character growth for the rest of Axion's Caeliar, in much the same way that Caeliar/Human interaction changed the Mantilis Caeliar.

All those books were Erika's story and not anyone else's.
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Old September 7 2013, 09:02 PM   #22
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Re: Borg royalty

I'll definitely agree that Erika Hernandez carried those books. But the story was great on so many other levels that you can almost ignore that the Caeliar were pretty much a deus ex machina. I fondly recall how Geordi told Picard where to go and how to get there when he wanted to build a thalarion weapon for example. Garak's interactions were awesome(politics suits him), Bacco's character was interesting. Even Necheyev and Jellico had an interesting dynamic. And the stakes were much higher. I liked Inyx's definition of love too... "she makes eternity worth contemplating."

I did literally shout when I realized where the Mantillis survivor story was going. Even if yeah... humanity is at the center of EVERYTHING in the Trek universe.
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Old September 8 2013, 01:23 AM   #23
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Re: Borg royalty

All the Titan crap and the OMG BABIEZ angst was godawful.

I would have loved just the Erika Hernandez story as a stand alone, not constantly interrupted by seemingly ever other Trek character ever.
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Old September 8 2013, 02:53 AM   #24
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Re: Borg royalty

teacake wrote: View Post
All the Titan crap and the OMG BABIEZ angst was godawful.

I would have loved just the Erika Hernandez story as a stand alone, not constantly interrupted by seemingly ever other Trek character ever.
Yes, this was the worst part of the books, Troi had a high risk pregnancy, there was no way I could suspend my disbelief enough to let her be on that away mission. And IMHO the doctor that allowed her to go was a quack. That just didn't work at all for me. I know Mack was trying to give the books tension, and suspense, but he should have found another way.
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Old September 8 2013, 03:15 AM   #25
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Re: Borg royalty

If Kathryn Janeway has a baby in some future Trek book I will DIE.
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