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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old August 28 2013, 03:17 PM   #31
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

T'Girl wrote: View Post
In order to work, the movie had to bring in a non-TNG audience.

James T. Kirk is Star Trek.

At least a Trek film wouldn't degrade itself by flashing a woman in her underwear in the middle of a trailer just to show that it's "sexy and/or edgy" in order to get bums on seats...hang on....
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Old August 28 2013, 03:52 PM   #32
sonak
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

T'Girl wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
4. Show the natives Picard wants to save so we could care about them
There wouldn't have been much of a chance to create a brand new species, and get to know them shoehorned into limited time span of a movie, however having instead of Veridian Three it be a planet that TNG had priviously visited might have been better.

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
TNG was on air for seven seasons, amassed a big fanbase of its own and was about to go into feature films, surely the series had enough weight behind it to do its first film without a crossover.
In order to work, the movie had to bring in a non-TNG audience.

James T. Kirk is Star Trek.


Late TNG had phenomenally high ratings and STFC was a big hit without the TOS crew, so I don't see how you can make that argument. By the time of Generations, Next Gen was a success on its own.
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Old August 29 2013, 10:29 AM   #33
JarodRussell
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

T'Girl wrote: View Post
In order to work, the movie had to bring in a non-TNG audience.
Why did First Contact work better then?
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Old September 1 2013, 09:05 PM   #34
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
In order to work, the movie had to bring in a non-TNG audience.
Why did First Contact work better then?
Because FC was a vastly superior film. It didn't need Kirk. I'm agreeing with both of you, in different ways. Generations was a good film but not as good as FC. This had nothing to do with Kirk, rather it rests on credible storytelling.
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Old September 5 2013, 05:39 PM   #35
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

I'll echo what others have said: wanting to have Kirk meet Picard was the main flaw of the premise of "Generations" from which everything else more or less descends.

The contrivances and twists that are performed to execute this create many of the problems with the film. Add to this the underwhelming threat of the Nexus and Soran (Malcolm McDowell was almost wasted here) and the underused Duras sisters (who I agree would have been better had they been working with/for Tomalak and the Romulans, if they really must be used at all) and you end up with a film that is underwhelming and on a certain level just does not make sense.

As Tomalak said earlier, if you wanted the two crews to meet, "Yesterday's Enterprise" was the story to do it with. Seeing that it had already been done, I think including Kirk and company was simply a poor choice. If you wanted to tie the film to TOS somehow and keep the "Generations" title, then come up with a villain who logically was created by the actions of the TOS crew, or the aftermath thereof.

The things that are good about the film, for me at least, primarily stem from outgrowths of what had already been established on TNG. I guess the best direction for Star Trek VII, for me at least, would have been having it not be "Generations" at all.
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Old September 5 2013, 05:45 PM   #36
Gojira
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
I would have ditched the whole concept of the Nexus altogether and just have it be a situation where the villain was a long-lived baddie that caused trouble for Kirk and his crew during the first half of the movie and then returned to finish what he started in the second half nearly a century later, running into Picard and his crew at that time. It definitely would have been a half-and-half movie divided between the 23rd-Century and the 24th-Century.

Yeah, there probably wouldn't have been a direct meeting between Kirk and Picard that way, but there would have been a scene in which Picard is accessing Kirk's report on the baddie on the holodeck. So we'd still finally see the two captains together in the 24th-Century, but via an interactive holodeck program in which the Kirk hologram talks to Picard the way the real Kirk would.

Other stuff I'd done:
  • We still would have seen the launch of the Enterprise-B, but with Spock and more of the TOS cast aboard (don't know if DeForest Kelley would have returned since he was apparently happy with how things ended in Star Trek VI).
  • Rather than destroy the Enterprise-D, she would have been severely damaged in battle, perhaps even losing an entire nacelle and a big chunk of her saucer section. That would ultimately pave the way for an upgraded and redesigned version of the ship for Star Trek VIII (like how the original Enterprise was for Star Trek I).
  • We would still see the Duras sisters as the main baddie's minions.
I really like those ideas!
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Old September 7 2013, 12:07 AM   #37
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

I propose a very simple solution that would easily fix Generations and save it from being my least favorite TNG movie, without changing a single line of dialogue. It's simple: Picard and Kirk need to fight eachother in the nexus.

If you're going to have a movie with both captains atleast have fun with it. A additional 5-10 minute long choreographed fight scene between the two should do it. And since the nexus isn't reality, there's no limit to what they could do. You could even have them flying around crouching tiger style. Just imagine Picard dropping a line of Shakespeare on Kirk after karate chopping him.

Alright maybe that's extreme, but I wouldn't mind it if they took a swing or two at eachother.
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Old September 7 2013, 01:02 PM   #38
JarodRussell
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

Just why.
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Old September 7 2013, 03:34 PM   #39
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

Wasn't one of the original ideas for GEN was to have the TOS crew vs TNG crew.

I for one love seeing old people fight.
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Old September 8 2013, 04:21 PM   #40
JarodRussell
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

I would love seeing Berman, Moore and Brage pull a Pegg & Orci saying "What, you didn't like our film? Fuck off!"
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Old September 8 2013, 06:36 PM   #41
Opus
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

You can read Brannon Braga interviews in the old Sci-Fi Universe mag, or some of his posts on the old AOL Star Trek boards.
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Old September 8 2013, 08:05 PM   #42
austen_pierce
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

Picard talking to a holodeck Kirk: I think that would be perceived like cheating. Especially if the trailer didn't make it crystal clear what was really happening. I can imagine a lot of negative reaction to this from fans.
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Old September 8 2013, 08:50 PM   #43
C.E. Evans
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Picard talking to a holodeck Kirk: I think that would be perceived like cheating. Especially if the trailer didn't make it crystal clear what was really happening.
Not at all, because the most important thing would be seeing William Shatner and Patrick Stewart finally onscreen together and comparing notes as Kirk and Picard. There would still be a meeting of the two captains and eras.
I can imagine a lot of negative reaction to this from fans.
There's a lot of negative reaction from fans to everything. As such, there's not going to be a Kirk-meets-Picard scenario that will please everyone. Heck, some didn't like that the two captains met at all and thought that Star Trek VII should have been a TNG-only movie.
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Old September 9 2013, 04:56 PM   #44
Praetor
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

Agreed. As a fairly self-aware fan, the last thing I want the studio to try to achieve as their primary goal is catering to my crazy whims.

The primary goal should be to make a good movie. The secondary goal should be to make a good Star Trek movie. If you follow through on those, the rest should fall into place.
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Old September 9 2013, 05:27 PM   #45
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Re: Better ideas for Generations

Praetor wrote: View Post
Agreed. As a fairly self-aware fan, the last thing I want the studio to try to achieve as their primary goal is catering to my crazy whims.

The primary goal should be to make a good movie. The secondary goal should be to make a good Star Trek movie. If you follow through on those, the rest should fall into place.
Agreed with all points.
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