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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 7 2013, 12:49 AM   #136
Opus
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Re: Orci strikes back

This old TOSer is a fan of the new films too, TYVM.

... Hmmm, that doesn't sound too good...
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Old September 7 2013, 01:18 AM   #137
SeerSGB
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Re: Orci strikes back

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
STID to me seems like an epic piece of fanfiction Orci, Lindeolf and Kurtzman wrote together. To live out their childhood dreams of remaking Khan.
They worked hard and worked their way up through the business to put themselves in that position. How dare they?
It's not meant to be an insult on their creative liberty, just and observation from a conscientious objector. They rebooted the franchise and on their second time out of the gate redo the most iconic villain of Star Trek. It's like if Abrams revived Darth Vader in Episode VII, because of his renowned reputation as Star Wars' greatest villain. There are rumors that Disney wants to revive Vader btw.

I still have the Entertainment Weekly from 2009 where Orci and Kurtzman talk about rebooting as a way to free themselves of 40+ years of continuity. STID pays homage to much of continuity of the primeverse. It has a been there/seen that feel to it. Except this time you're seeing it with new faces and $175,000,000 budget.

And you hit on the problem with fandom:

- My god, they threw away canon---sure 90% of we think is canon isn't and comes from books most people have read--but they threw out canon! Trek is ruined forever!

- Unoriginal hacks, all they're doing is writing fanwank and keep rehashing the old stuff. Trek is ruined forever!

Can't win with fans. Give what they want, you're an unoriginal hack; try something new and you're ignoring canon.
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Old September 7 2013, 01:22 AM   #138
BillJ
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Re: Orci strikes back

SeerSGB wrote: View Post

Can't win with fans. Give what they want, you're an unoriginal hack; try something new and you're ignoring canon.
It's the old Kobayashi Maru!
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Old September 7 2013, 01:24 AM   #139
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci strikes back

Who wants an apple?
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The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
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Old September 7 2013, 01:27 AM   #140
SeerSGB
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Re: Orci strikes back

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Who wants an apple?
I'll admit it, I chuckled at that scene in '09. It was just a subtle enough call back to TWOK to cap the whole scene.

BillJ wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post

Can't win with fans. Give what they want, you're an unoriginal hack; try something new and you're ignoring canon.
It's the old Kobayashi Maru!
Pretty much. Except you've got better odds with the Kobayashi Maru.
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Old September 7 2013, 01:39 AM   #141
ComicGuy89
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Re: Orci strikes back

I don't think he should have used profanity, but I was so tempted to blast off way more than he has quite a few times since the movie was released.

I appreciate that some people don't like the movie and I'm fine with what they have to say. However some people take it to a really personal level where they imply all sorts of things about fans of STiD. They accuse fans of being stupid or anti-intellectual, of being immature, of being attention deficit, of being sheeple, sexist, all sorts of things. And a large number of the complaints seem to assume fans of STiD never knew what TOS or other classic Trek were. They keep throwing around "spitting on Roddenberry's vision", for instance.

For Orci, I can see how, since it was his project, he could have had enough. If I were him I might have blown off my trap in far worse ways.
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Old September 7 2013, 01:44 AM   #142
Tosk
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Re: Orci strikes back

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Who wants an apple?
I'll admit it, I chuckled at that scene in '09. It was just a subtle enough call back to TWOK to cap the whole scene.
Same here. Funny thing is, sometimes we give too much credit. Turns out the apple was never intended as a nod to TWOK.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Can't win with fans. Give what they want, you're an unoriginal hack; try something new and you're ignoring canon.
If you lump all fans together then of course you "can't win". Why would anyone expect every single Trekkie to have the same opinion?

And anyway, it seems like a bit of a specious complaint to me. There are a lot of things in nuTrek that are new that were not decried as "ignoring canon".
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Old September 7 2013, 01:48 AM   #143
MrJ
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Re: Orci strikes back

Robert Orci wrote:
Basically, as we went the casting process and we began honing in on the themes of the movie, it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of middle eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race.
Does that mean that from now on all the villains in Star Trek will have to be white? I know that most of them already are. But if every single bad guy in every single Star Trek movie from now on (and each movie has to have at least one) has to be white in order to avoid offending someone that doesn't seem very Star Trek, considering Star Trek is supposed to be so multi ethnic.


geneo wrote: View Post
MrJ wrote: View Post
So the take away of this is: If you didn't like Into Darkness and you raise valid points about it's many flaws in a fairly civilized way your points are all invalid. Because STD made money. So you can FUCK THE FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING FUCKS!
Is there a way to discuss this without all that profanity?
Ask Orci, I just used his exact words, albeit a bit exaggerated to make a point.
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Old September 7 2013, 01:48 AM   #144
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Orci strikes back

Opus wrote: View Post
This old TOSer is a fan of the new films too, TYVM.

... Hmmm, that doesn't sound too good...
Do I get any sort of points for being a young (age 25) TOS fan?
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Old September 7 2013, 01:52 AM   #145
BillJ
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Re: Orci strikes back

MrJ wrote: View Post
Does that mean that from now on all the villains in Star Trek will have to be white? I know that most of them already are. But if every single bad guy in every single Star Trek movie from now on (and each movie has to have at least one) has to be white in order to avoid offending someone that doesn't seem very Star Trek, considering Star Trek is supposed to be so multi ethnic.

Hasn't every Trek movie bad guy been white except for Montalban?
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Old September 7 2013, 01:56 AM   #146
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci strikes back

MrJ wrote: View Post
Robert Orci wrote:
Basically, as we went the casting process and we began honing in on the themes of the movie, it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of middle eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race.
Does that mean that from now on all the villains in Star Trek will have to be white? I know that most of them already are. But if every single bad guy in every single Star Trek movie from now on (and each movie has to have at least one) has to be white in order to avoid offending someone that doesn't seem very Star Trek, considering Star Trek is supposed to be so multi ethnic.
He decided not to play into and perpetuate the stereotypes. (thats a very Star Trek thing to do) Perhaps being Hispanic himself was a factor in that. The next film will have a different theme and the casting choices will reflect that.
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Old September 7 2013, 02:02 AM   #147
MrJ
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Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hasn't every Trek movie bad guy been white except for Montalban?
Pretty much, that's what I said. However, not really a "Bad Guy" there was the V'ger probe in the form of Lt. Ilia played by Persis Khambatta. And Martia from STVI mostly played by Iman.
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Old September 7 2013, 02:02 AM   #148
Cinema Geekly
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Re: Orci strikes back

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
Bob has every right to talk about how much money the films made,
Money does not a good film make. His retaliation of profit margins is to show the peons that his movie was a "success," despite their untrained and naive nonsensical rants. The issue of whether or not *Star Trek* has been revived, however, is open. Are these films worth or the Trek philosophy? Or are they veiled, generic sci-fi?

In any case, I reiterate that whatever the conclusion, Ocri has demonstrated that he's an immature little brat who doesn't know how to handle a situation politically. FAIL.
Whether or not the movie is good wasn't what that article was about. It was about Star Trek being broken. And since the article didn't say the storytelling is broken most people take that to mean the franchise is broken.

Star Trek is a brand. If a brand is broken nobody is buying it, and more people than ever are buying Star Trek, these people just don't like the flavor.
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Old September 7 2013, 02:04 AM   #149
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci strikes back

BillJ wrote: View Post
MrJ wrote: View Post
Does that mean that from now on all the villains in Star Trek will have to be white? I know that most of them already are. But if every single bad guy in every single Star Trek movie from now on (and each movie has to have at least one) has to be white in order to avoid offending someone that doesn't seem very Star Trek, considering Star Trek is supposed to be so multi ethnic.

Hasn't every Trek movie bad guy been white except for Montalban?
The main bad guys have been played by white actors. Though I guess in some circles Abraham and Montalban might not be white enough.
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Old September 7 2013, 02:17 AM   #150
JWPlatt
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Re: Orci strikes back

Why is no one mentioning Benicio del Toro who was originally cast?
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