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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 5 2013, 11:41 PM   #61
Sran
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
The real question is why Uhura never made captain.
Saying things like "the channel is open, Captain" doesn't exactly distinguish one from her fellow officers and earn a command. And who's to say she aspired to such a thing? Recall that she transferred out of command early in the five-year mission so she could focus on her communications duties full time.

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Old September 6 2013, 02:45 AM   #62
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

And indeed, perhaps she really wanted to be an engineer?
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Old September 6 2013, 01:56 PM   #63
Lance
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Sran wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
The real question is why Uhura never made captain.
Saying things like "the channel is open, Captain" doesn't exactly distinguish one from her fellow officers and earn a command. And who's to say she aspired to such a thing? Recall that she transferred out of command early in the five-year mission so she could focus on her communications duties full time.

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Hey, I like that! Have to be honest, I never really gave her change of uniform much thought. But you're absolutely right, "in universe" there must have been a reason for it.
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Old September 6 2013, 03:35 PM   #64
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Lance wrote: View Post
Hey, I like that! Have to be honest, I never really gave her change of uniform much thought. But you're absolutely right, "in universe" there must have been a reason for it.
From the evidence we've seen, the TOS uniform color doesn't refer to personal qualifications for command a vessel, but to which division the person is currently assigned. More likely is that shipboard organization was changed so that communications fell under the Engineering and Ship's Services division rather than the Command division.
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Old September 6 2013, 03:53 PM   #65
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
From the evidence we've seen, the TOS uniform color doesn't refer to personal qualifications for command a vessel, but to which division the person is currently assigned. More likely is that shipboard organization was changed so that communications fell under the Engineering and Ship's Services division rather than the Command division.
You may be right. But it's never been made clear exactly how those assignments come about. The captain and first officer put together duty rosters and crew assignments. I'd guess each pair does things somewhat differently. Some captains make assignments based on experience and past performance: others may do so based on each crew member's stated goals, provided that said goals aren't unrealistic and don't create logjams at certain duty stations.

Moreover, is a person's duty uniform based only on his or her assignment, or does personal preference also factor into the decision? Spock could have worn command gold as first officer, but outside of WNMHGB, he was always seen wearing science blue. It was only in TWOK and afterwards that he wore the colors of the command division, having achieved his own captaincy by then. Sulu wore command colors during the five-year mission before switching to gold in TWOK and back to command white in TUC after getting Excelsior.

Scotty never wore command colors despite being promoted to captain, though his rank was more reflective of his expertise and experience than any sort of command authority. He was second officer during the five-year mission but spent the rest of his Enterprise tour almost exclusively in engineering, only coming to the bridge for urgent repairs or to speak with Kirk directly.

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Old September 6 2013, 04:27 PM   #66
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Sran wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
From the evidence we've seen, the TOS uniform color doesn't refer to personal qualifications for command a vessel, but to which division the person is currently assigned. More likely is that shipboard organization was changed so that communications fell under the Engineering and Ship's Services division rather than the Command division.
You may be right. But it's never been made clear exactly how those assignments come about. The captain and first officer put together duty rosters and crew assignments. I'd guess each pair does things somewhat differently. Some captains make assignments based on experience and past performance: others may do so based on each crew member's stated goals, provided that said goals aren't unrealistic and don't create logjams at certain duty stations.

Moreover, is a person's duty uniform based only on his or her assignment, or does personal preference also factor into the decision? Spock could have worn command gold as first officer, but outside of WNMHGB, he was always seen wearing science blue. It was only in TWOK and afterwards that he wore the colors of the command division, having achieved his own captaincy by then. Sulu wore command colors during the five-year mission before switching to gold in TWOK and back to command white in TUC after getting Excelsior.
The color codes were more complex in TMP and TWOK thru Generations, with Helm being shifted to Engineering and Navigation to Science in the latter. Command white in both schemes seems to be limited to the ships Captain, the Admiralty and Saavik.

Scotty never wore command colors despite being promoted to captain, though his rank was more reflective of his expertise and experience than any sort of command authority. He was second officer during the five-year mission but spent the rest of his Enterprise tour almost exclusively in engineering, only coming to the bridge for urgent repairs or to speak with Kirk directly.

--Sran
Scotty did wear Command white in "Relics". But being a Captain doesn't mean you're in the Command division. Captain is a rank any officer can achieve, they don't have to command a ship to get it.
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Old September 6 2013, 04:35 PM   #67
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Whether is attained Captian's rank or not, he did do something noteworthy- the USS Chekov (NCC-57302) was a Springfield-class starship shown on screen in the graveyard in 'The Best of Both Worlds'...
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Old September 6 2013, 05:26 PM   #68
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
Whether is attained Captian's rank or not, he did do something noteworthy- the USS Chekov (NCC-57302) was a Springfield-class starship shown on screen in the graveyard in 'The Best of Both Worlds'...
True. I had forgotten about that.
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Old September 6 2013, 06:15 PM   #69
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
Whether is attained Captian's rank or not, he did do something noteworthy- the USS Chekov (NCC-57302) was a Springfield-class starship shown on screen in the graveyard in 'The Best of Both Worlds'...
That ship's named for his imaginary brother Piotor, who get's more respect than Pavel.
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Old September 6 2013, 06:30 PM   #70
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Sran wrote: View Post
Moreover, is a person's duty uniform based only on his or her assignment, or does personal preference also factor into the decision? Spock could have worn command gold as first officer, but outside of WNMHGB, he was always seen wearing science blue. It was only in TWOK and afterwards that he wore the colors of the command division, having achieved his own captaincy by then. Sulu wore command colors during the five-year mission before switching to gold in TWOK and back to command white in TUC after getting Excelsior.
There seems to be some leeway for an officer with two hats, like Spock, but for the colors to be useful they would have to be somewhat systematic.

The movies had extra division colors so aren't really comparable to TOS. In TMP the "gold" division was split into command and "operations." Communications was grouped with helm again; there seems to have been some back-and-forth about where it fit in.

Scotty never wore command colors despite being promoted to captain, though his rank was more reflective of his expertise and experience than any sort of command authority. He was second officer during the five-year mission but spent the rest of his Enterprise tour almost exclusively in engineering, only coming to the bridge for urgent repairs or to speak with Kirk directly.
In TOS being qualified for command apparently depends on being an "officer of the line," which Scotty is, but it doesn't seem to correlate to the uniform colors.
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Old September 6 2013, 07:08 PM   #71
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
In TOS being qualified for command apparently depends on being an "officer of the line," which Scotty is, but it doesn't seem to correlate to the uniform colors.
And in TNG and DS9, too. Data was second officer on Enterprise and wore a gold uniform (except when Jelico was around). Dax had command of the Defiant while wearing her science blue uniform, though this was usually when Sisko or Worf was not available.

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Old September 6 2013, 08:21 PM   #72
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

On at least one occasion we saw starship captains who elected to wear blue and red instead of command gold. Perhaps they commanded a science ship and an engineering corps ship.
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Old September 6 2013, 08:43 PM   #73
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Or perhaps it's merely up to the Captain. If Kirk was, for example, a science specialist before making Captain, perhaps he could have worn blue.

As others have said, specialty and position seem to actually be two separate things. Some people seem to think that TOS gold (or green if you prefer) as defined as "Command and Control" indicates only officers who are on a command path, but I would suggest instead it involves anyone in charge of steering or generally "operating" the ship, in a non-repair nature.
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Old September 7 2013, 03:36 AM   #74
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
Whether is attained Captian's rank or not, he did do something noteworthy- the USS Chekov (NCC-57302) was a Springfield-class starship shown on screen in the graveyard in 'The Best of Both Worlds'...
Although, technically, that's only quasi-canon now at best, since the reference to "the Chekov" (spoken by Commander Shelby during the Wolf 359 graveyard-flyby) was redubbed in post-production to "the Tolstoy" (the producers deciding at the very last minute to change the reference, a TOS shout-out in that moment being "too cute").

That said, there's still a 24th Century USS Chekov in the continuity -- author Peter David took the opportunity to have the Excelsior-class Chekov in service to Starfleet at the exact same time (the vessel arrived too late to participate in the Battle of Wolf 359), and later fought against the Borg in the TNG novel Vendetta (set during late Season 4).
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Old September 7 2013, 04:04 AM   #75
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Re: Why didn't Chekov ever make Captain?

Praetor wrote: View Post
Or perhaps it's merely up to the Captain. If Kirk was, for example, a science specialist before making Captain, perhaps he could have worn blue.

As others have said, specialty and position seem to actually be two separate things. Some people seem to think that TOS gold (or green if you prefer) as defined as "Command and Control" indicates only officers who are on a command path, but I would suggest instead it involves anyone in charge of steering or generally "operating" the ship, in a non-repair nature.
True. I doubt the crewman in gold pair of coveralls is on a career path towards the Captain's chair.
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