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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old September 4 2013, 08:54 AM   #76
Robert Comsol
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

@ ZapBrannigan

In my Compendium the picture is rather tilted, I tried to adjust it (hence the white strip on the left hand side of my scan). Looking astern (in this shot) the port is to the right.

We can argue with camera lenses all day long, but one thing is clear: The scan on the previous thread page (much better than mine) of the original shuttlebay (we agree on that?) clearly shows that the upper red light (right below the two observation corridor windows) does not align with the large white sign as it does in post # 59 (the one with two blue vertical parallel stripes).

In order to achieve that kind of alignment the photographer of the original shuttlebay would have been forced to move all the way to the "starboard" side of the model, but this would have resulted in an overall perspective different than what we see in post # 59.

Here is a shot of the original TOS footage.

Bob
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Old September 4 2013, 11:11 AM   #77
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
@ ZapBrannigan

In my Compendium the picture is rather tilted, I tried to adjust it (hence the white strip on the left hand side of my scan). Looking astern (in this shot) the port is to the right.

We can argue with camera lenses all day long, but one thing is clear: The scan on the previous thread page (much better than mine) of the original shuttlebay (we agree on that?) clearly shows that the upper red light (right below the two observation corridor windows) does not align with the large white sign as it does in post # 59 (the one with two blue vertical parallel stripes).

In order to achieve that kind of alignment the photographer of the original shuttlebay would have been forced to move all the way to the "starboard" side of the model, but this would have resulted in an overall perspective different than what we see in post # 59.

Here is a shot of the original TOS footage.

Bob
I see what you're talking about now, thanks.

So the color close-ups might be a crafty re-creation, the kind of thing Greg Jein might have built for kicks.

Or maybe the signage on the original miniature got moved around between photos, as a work in progress.

If the ship were real, there's no way the hangar deck would ever be pressurized. Maybe they would have a retractable walk-thru tube that soft-sealed against the shuttlecraft door for boarding (like in Space: 1999). But they'd never pump so much air into that bay.

That HD grab from "Journey to Babel" is suh-weet!
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Old September 4 2013, 11:26 AM   #78
Robert Comsol
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Or maybe the signage on the original miniature got moved around between photos, as a work in progress.
You read the comments doubting Richard Datin's memory. Okay, the signage sheet contains some exterior texts that were applied to the 11-footer VFX model of the Enterprise, but I don't believe Mr. Datin confused Enterprise and shuttlebay.

The text signage contains exactly the kind of text you'd expect for a shuttlebay (where apparently the larger version below was intended and used for the shuttlebay text signs). Content and font style is vastly different from what we see on these close-up and full color shots.

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
If the ship were real, there's no way the hangar deck would ever be pressurized.
IIRC there is sufficient episode dialogue to indicate that.

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
That HD grab from "Journey to Babel" is suh-weet!
Indeed it is. I thought it would be useful inserting the real thing for orientation.

Bob
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Old September 4 2013, 12:45 PM   #79
Warped9
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
If the ship were real, there's no way the hangar deck would ever be pressurized. Maybe they would have a retractable walk-thru tube that soft-sealed against the shuttlecraft door for boarding (like in Space: 1999). But they'd never pump so much air into that bay.
Onscreen we actually see people exiting and entering the craft in the hangar deck so it is what it appears to be.

I've long thought similarly as you've remarked. It would make more sense to have the shuttlecraft stored in a large area and then moved into a small (just large enough) chamber that's depressurizated for launch. Or you could do it like it's done on TNG where the craft passes through a force field that keeps the air in when the hangar door is open. In a more near future scenario you'd probably store the craft outside attached to the hull where you can access it through an airlock, but storing the craft inside does fit MJ's idea that things should be inside as much as possible to facilitate maintenance and repair for a starship in deep space.
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Old September 4 2013, 11:02 PM   #80
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

The smaller depressurizable section makes the most sense to me, but of course I'm an admitted fan of the "keep it inside" mentality.

One might reason that the only reason to give the Enterprise a larger bay was the prospect of receiving but not permanently berthing larger vessels than her standard compliment of shuttles... or the need to launch several simultaneously or in rapid-fire short order.
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Old September 4 2013, 11:15 PM   #81
alchemist
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Maurice wrote: View Post

If this photo is from a crafty recreation of the original shuttle hanger deck model, then the recreation is spot on. I just checked a high res scan of one of my film clips that shows the original model, and the sign between the two bays (above the six cone-like objects) appears to indeed say "FUELING STATION."
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Old September 5 2013, 07:42 AM   #82
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

It's not a different model; just layman photoanalysis gone horribly wrong.
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Old September 5 2013, 10:08 AM   #83
Robert Comsol
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

alchemist wrote: View Post
I just checked a high res scan of one of my film clips that shows the original model, and the sign between the two bays (above the six cone-like objects) appears to indeed say "FUELING STATION."
Wow! Would you mind sharing this with us?

Since "FUELING STATION" is not on the signage sheet Mr. Datin stated he used for the shuttlebay, this may help us to approximate whether Mr. Datin did have bad memory (as suggested by Maurice) or not.

Bob
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Old September 5 2013, 11:21 AM   #84
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature



This is a little off-topic, and I'm probably the last man on the planet to notice it, but here goes. I was struck by how narrow the overhead Observation Deck is in the filming miniature. If that's all there was to the Obs Deck, it would make the hallway (used by Kirk and Lenore Karidian) about two feet wide.

It turns out that Matt Jeffries' Hangar Deck plans (elevation views) in The Making of Star Trek show that the bay's inner walls are not the ship's outer hull. There's an inner shell through which only part of the Observation Deck's width pokes into the Hangar bay. This leaves a gap of about five feet between the Hangar interior and the ship's hull.

I found this surprising because over the years I've spent more time with the Franz Joseph drawings. Apparently FJ felt that the Hangar Deck would be too small in an inner shell.

Last edited by ZapBrannigan; September 5 2013 at 11:35 AM.
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Old September 5 2013, 01:12 PM   #85
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

I've always accepted that the hangar walls were an inner shell and MJ's drawings show this (in TMoST) long before we get FJ's plans.
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Old September 5 2013, 01:44 PM   #86
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

With those doors on the side, I don't see how it could be anything but an inner shell.
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Old September 5 2013, 01:48 PM   #87
Robert Comsol
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

@ ZapBrannigan

Apparently you are not the "last man on the planet" not to be capable to do a proper photoanalysis as this would be me.

Noticing what seem or are discrepancies and asking questions about these is "horribly wrong". I don't think the real Rod Serling (RIP) would have ever approved such an attitude.

Bob
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Old September 5 2013, 05:33 PM   #88
Warped9
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
To me this remains one of the most fantastic set designs (even if it is miniature) in all of science fiction on television and film. The whole way it was depicted with the controlled launch/landing of the shuttlecraft and the working turntable---just awesome.

Yeah, I could nitpick, knowing the shuttlecraft is scaled too small and the hangar looks a bit too long, but the overall visual effect (enhanced with sound f/x and music) is just bloody amazing. I've seen the TOS-R remake of these scenes and they just look flat and uninspired. In addition the TOS-R shuttlecraft launches look like cartoons whereas the original makes it easy to believe the controlled launches/landings are being done on automatic (which they probably would be if real).
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Old September 5 2013, 10:08 PM   #89
Robert Comsol
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I could nitpick, knowing the shuttlecraft is scaled too small and the hangar looks a bit too long.
I think we are looking at the hangar with "X-ray vision", i.e. the back wall with the central piece of the U-shaped observation corridor has been conveniently "removed", because otherwise it would not have been possible to capture the entire hangar like this on film.

Bob
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Old September 5 2013, 10:45 PM   #90
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Re: Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Much like the engineering "cathedral," one of the things that has always intrigued me the most is just how much of a forced perspective we are looking at here. We know the miniature itself was built with a degree of forced perspective.
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