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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old September 5 2013, 12:38 PM   #391
Kirk the Jerk
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

[QUOTE=Belz...;8601109]
Shazam! wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
As fas as I know, the discovery of Khan and the bit with Spock and Kirk in the engine core are the only portions of the story that are similar in any way. There's nothing else in the story that's lifted from any other Trek story.
First, could you please learn to use the quote function properly so the name of the person you are replying to appears with the link to the original post ? It's very difficult to spot posts replying to me, the way you're doing it.

Second, you're the one who is making a positive claim. Proving a negative is almost impossible
I'm on an iPhone, so manually editing everything you write is a ball ache, so apologies for not using the 'quote function' to your liking. I suppose you write that much that you can't remember what you've written.

Yes I did say Story but I meant that in a different way, with more than just the action we were watching on screen, so the term I meant was back story, as i later said.

My original point, was that I felt that this film was Lazy, unimaginative. You said it lifted NOTHING else from any other trek story so I agree my attempt to disagree with that by using Section 31 was a weak comment to make but it does undeniably lift elements from other Trek stories.

Hopefully the use of the 'quote function' on this post will more to your liking but honestly if it's not then my heart goes out to you.

Last edited by Kirk the Jerk; September 5 2013 at 01:48 PM.
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Old September 5 2013, 12:56 PM   #392
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

R. Star wrote: View Post
It's common for many people to say "my opinion is the majority, therefore it must be right." As if numbers somehow validates the right choice. On a matter that's an opinion to start with, thereby subjective and subject to individual taste. Funny thing is the numbers don't even matter. Everyone always has the silent majority on their side in these debates.

Of course the numbers validates!

The film studios, the companies and individuals will only invest their money into a film or TV series providing there is an actual sizable audience out there. The market needs to be sufficient so that their is a strong chance for financial return from ticket sales, merchandising and sponsors.

An audience of a few hundred people who can quote every line of Homefront of WYLB is of no interest.
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Old September 5 2013, 05:18 PM   #393
bountifulboxesjeg
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Belz... wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
I can go on but hopefully you get the point.
No, I don't get the point. None of that qualifies.
My post wasn't in regards to the original claim. It was to your statement that "Into Darkness has almost NONE of the story of any other Trek movie" and smart move just stating "None of that qualifies" instead of saying how it doesn't. I would love for you to explain how what I posted doesn't count as lifting from previous stories. I'll re-post it just encase you forgot where it was.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
I liked Into Darkness. I took it as a homage movie for seasoned trekkies and a catch up for newbies. With that said, you say it has almost NONE of the story of any Trek movies, as if NuKirk wasn't following TOS Kirk's style, or that Klingon/Human relations weren't shaky, or that section 31 didn't exist, or that Carol wasn't standing up there, or that Starfleet Headquarters wasn't in San Fransisco, or that the Admirals weren't using the same Admiral outfits we've seen before, or that Spock didn't do a mind meld, or that they didn't quickly bring up Harcourt Mudd and that Mudd incident (I caught that in theaters, me and another.). I can go on but hopefully you get the point.
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Old September 5 2013, 06:05 PM   #394
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Captain_Q wrote: View Post

Now there are many things in Star Trek that I would not like to live with. And now there will be fifty million posts about how racist and sexist Star Trek actually is. So have at it and basically ruin everything Star Trek is with arguing, that pretty much takes all the joy away from it. And that's what Star Trek is to a lot of people. Joy. I turn into a five year old happy child when I watch Star Trek and I don't give a crap about every single minute detail. Moffet didn't write it!
If you're going to hold the Abrams films to a certain standard, isn't it fair to hold all of Star Trek to that same standard?
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Old September 5 2013, 09:16 PM   #395
Belz...
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Kirk the Jerk wrote: View Post
I'm on an iPhone, so manually editing everything you write is a ball ache, so apologies for not using the 'quote function' to your liking. I suppose you write that much that you can't remember what you've written.
I made a polite request of you and you now resort to snark ? That's very telling. I don't necessarily read every post in a thread, so if your post isn't marked as answering me, I might miss it.

Yes I did say Story but I meant that in a different way, with more than just the action we were watching on screen, so the term I meant was back story, as i later said.
Well that sure expands the meaning of your post, then. Still, aside from individual characters, minor plot points and a single scene from the movie, I don't see how one could argue that Into Darkness or the 2009 movie lifted much from any previous installment.

You said it lifted NOTHING else from any other trek story
That's not true. I made specific exceptions qualifying my nothing.
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Old September 5 2013, 09:18 PM   #396
Belz...
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

bbjeg wrote: View Post
My post wasn't in regards to the original claim. It was to your statement that "Into Darkness has almost NONE of the story of any other Trek movie" and smart move just stating "None of that qualifies" instead of saying how it doesn't.
I didn't think it was necessary, since none of those elements you cited are stories. Having a character in a movie that was on the show previously isn't lifting a story from a previous show. I don't see how any of the elements on your list qualifies.
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Old September 5 2013, 11:21 PM   #397
bountifulboxesjeg
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Still, aside from individual characters, minor plot points and a single scene from the movie, I don't see how one could argue that Into Darkness or the 2009 movie lifted much from any previous installment.
You're absolutely right. Aside from all the stuff they lifted no one can argue they lifted anything.

Belz... wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
My post wasn't in regards to the original claim. It was to your statement that "Into Darkness has almost NONE of the story of any other Trek movie" and smart move just stating "None of that qualifies" instead of saying how it doesn't.
I didn't think it was necessary, since none of those elements you cited are stories. Having a character in a movie that was on the show previously isn't lifting a story from a previous show. I don't see how any of the elements on your list qualifies.
The relationship between the Federation and the Klingons is a story. NuTrek could of easily made the Klingons already an ally, or have them not use TOS' Klingon language (used in previous stories), or created a whole new alien race. I also stated more than character references. My post covered locations, factions, attire, and abilities but I'll save you the effort and remove Spock's mind melding abilities since it was used in the first movie (I won't count that as "any other Trek movie").

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Old September 6 2013, 09:57 AM   #398
Belz...
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

bbjeg wrote: View Post
You're absolutely right. Aside from all the stuff they lifted no one can argue they lifted anything.
Pay attention, and stop trying to score silly points in a game only you are playing: STORY. Individual characters and elements are not STORY.

The relationship between the Federation and the Klingons is a story. NuTrek could of easily made the Klingons already an ally
That would've sent the fans into an even more hysterical outrage, as the Klingons were NOT allies of the federation at that point, and I don't see how they'd explain it using Nero's arrival.
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Old September 6 2013, 03:53 PM   #399
bountifulboxesjeg
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Belz... wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
You're absolutely right. Aside from all the stuff they lifted no one can argue they lifted anything.
Pay attention, and stop trying to score silly points in a game only you are playing: STORY. Individual characters and elements are not STORY.
I was paying attention.
bbjeg wrote: View Post
The relationship between the Federation and the Klingons is a story. NuTrek could of easily made the Klingons already an ally
Belz... wrote: View Post
That would've sent the fans into an even more hysterical outrage, as the Klingons were NOT allies of the federation at that point, and I don't see how they'd explain it using Nero's arrival.
You say elements isn't a story yet "the Klingons were NOT allies of the federation at that point". Where did you find that information if not from a previous non-nutrek story? Nero's appearance, an advanced Romulan, able to destroy planets unopposed could get the Klingons to join starfleet. I won't even count that partially deleted scene involving the Klingons (when Prime Spock mind-melds with Kirk that shot of Nero was suppose to be a deceiving plot within the Klingon empire) as a entry point.

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Old September 6 2013, 07:12 PM   #400
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

I'll link this here for those who want to poll their choices.

Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition
www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=224932
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Old September 6 2013, 07:18 PM   #401
Kirk the Jerk
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Kirk the Jerk wrote: View Post
I'm on an iPhone, so manually editing everything you write is a ball ache, so apologies for not using the 'quote function' to your liking. I suppose you write that much that you can't remember what you've written.
I made a polite request of you and you now resort to snark ? That's very telling. I don't necessarily read every post in a thread, so if your post isn't marked as answering me, I might miss it.
Apologies if it came across that way, it wasn't my intention to be Snark(y) with you and having read it back it does come across that way.

My view on the the movie hasn't changed even after re watching it the other night, yes there are some great scenes, but what still bugs me is that Abrams used those other mentioned scenes in the first place, he wanted to re boot Star Trek, so re boot it, in a good way. Don't use scenes from others and merely twist them a little and claim its still wholly re booting it.

I know he wanted to pay homage to older Trek fans but doing it that way bugs me. It's made me un excited and less willing to want to see the third. I know there are fans out there who love it, you just have to read some of the many reviews to get that. But I know there are hundreds more like me who felt it was a lazy way out of being original.

I'm not a huge fan of movies like Transformers, X-Men, the latest Die Hard etc etc because they're mostly just action with little else in between. I like movies like Back To The Future that are heavily story based and have some action. It's not all just blowing shit up, if I wanted that I'd just watch Mythbusters
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Old September 7 2013, 09:33 AM   #402
Belz...
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

bbjeg wrote: View Post
I was paying attention.
Then how did you miss the distinction after I pointed it out ?

bbjeg wrote: View Post
You say elements isn't a story yet "the Klingons were NOT allies of the federation at that point". Where did you find that information if not from a previous non-nutrek story?
Elements can be part of a story, but my point is that "klingons" isn't a story, nor is "James Kirk".
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Old September 7 2013, 08:42 PM   #403
bountifulboxesjeg
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Elements can be part of a story, but my point is that "klingons" isn't a story, nor is "James Kirk".
No one said "Klingons" was a story nor "James Kirk". I was discussing relationships between factions and Kirk's character (swagger).

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Old September 8 2013, 10:50 AM   #404
Belz...
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Then is there anything on your list that actually fulfills the criteria of being a reused story ?
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Old September 8 2013, 03:27 PM   #405
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Maybe stepping away from Trek for a moment can add some perspective. Take Sherlock Holmes, for instance.

To my mind, a new Holmes movie that involves such standard elements as Moriarity, Mycroft, Irene Alder, Lestrade, the Baker Street Irregulars, and Holmes employing an ingenious disguise is not necessarily a rehash of an old story.

But a new version of The Hound of the Baskervilles . . . yeah, that would be a remake.

By that standard, STiD didn't feel like a retelling of WoK to me.
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