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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old September 4 2013, 10:21 PM   #376
Shazam!
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

anh165 wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
As fas as I know, the discovery of Khan and the bit with Spock and Kirk in the engine core are the only portions of the story that are similar in any way. There's nothing else in the story that's lifted from any other Trek story.
This is almost a parody post.
Rubbish.

Belz is correct, the warp core scene is about the only clear remake / tribute of previous Trek movie, the rest of it is about as original as it gets.
You can't dismiss two huge examples of 'lifted' elements by saying "yeah, but apart from that..." and expect your point to be taken seriously in any way.
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Old September 4 2013, 11:08 PM   #377
BillJ
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
You can't dismiss two huge examples of 'lifted' elements by saying "yeah, but apart from that..." and expect your point to be taken seriously in any way.
Some fans will likely hang themselves when the day comes that an episode or movie is actually remade based on the responses some have had to Into Darkness.

I, for one, can't wait for the day that we get a modern interpretation with modern effects of something like The Cage or Where No Man Has Gone Before.
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Old September 4 2013, 11:58 PM   #378
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Return to the original timeline and continue exploring new worlds and civilizations. That's gotta be better than reliving previous encounters like TWOK. Even Star Wars didn't retread over already established incidents. I don't 100% agree with STID being the worst Star Trek movie but it definitely isn't the best. It had to be more than 100 fans were polled in that worst Star Trek movie poll or else it wouldn't have been news. Most Star Trek fans don't like the reboot franchise, like it or not. The merchandise market reflects that as well, there are very few reboot related items. Most current Star Trek merchandise is based on the prime universe. Playmates did make toys for the first movie and they did not sell at all, in fact if you visit toys r us you can still find various items from the movie on the shelves that have been rotting for 2+ years. The reboot franchise is on the decline, it will probably be dead in a couple of years.
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Old September 5 2013, 12:14 AM   #379
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

James wrote: View Post
It had to be more than 100 fans were polled in that worst Star Trek movie poll or else it wouldn't have been news. Most Star Trek fans don't like the reboot franchise, like it or not.
No, as I understand it, it was only about a hundred fans. The media made too much of it because "Fans Hate New Movie!" is a much better headline that "Fans Have Wide Ranges of Opinions Regarding New Movie." (A similar poll, held at a Seattle convention a few weeks later, yielded very different results.)

And can we please drive a stake through this stubborn myth that "most" Trek fans don't like the reboot? Hell, the endless debates on this very board prove that isn't the case.

The "fans" have never spoken with one voice and they never will. And the people who adamantly reject the reboot are a vocal minority at best. Like it or not.
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Old September 5 2013, 12:20 AM   #380
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
James wrote: View Post
It had to be more than 100 fans were polled in that worst Star Trek movie poll or else it wouldn't have been news. Most Star Trek fans don't like the reboot franchise, like it or not.
No, as I understand it, it was only about a hundred fans. The media made too much of it because "Fans Hate New Movie!" is a much better headline that "Fans Have Wide Ranges of Opinions Regarding New Movie." (A similar poll, held at a Seattle convention a few weeks later, yielded very different results.)

And can we please drive a stake through this stubborn myth that "most" Trek fans don't like the reboot? Hell, the endless debates on this very board prove that isn't the case.

The "fans" have never spoken with one voice and they never will. And the people who adamantly reject the reboot are a vocal minority at best. Like it or not.
It's not a myth, I see people bash the reboot all of the time. I've personally seen countless people bashing this version of Trek. Too many to count.
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Old September 5 2013, 12:33 AM   #381
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

It's common for many people to say "my opinion is the majority, therefore it must be right." As if numbers somehow validates the right choice. On a matter that's an opinion to start with, thereby subjective and subject to individual taste. Funny thing is the numbers don't even matter. Everyone always has the silent majority on their side in these debates.
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Old September 5 2013, 01:26 AM   #382
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

James wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
James wrote: View Post
It had to be more than 100 fans were polled in that worst Star Trek movie poll or else it wouldn't have been news. Most Star Trek fans don't like the reboot franchise, like it or not.
No, as I understand it, it was only about a hundred fans. The media made too much of it because "Fans Hate New Movie!" is a much better headline that "Fans Have Wide Ranges of Opinions Regarding New Movie." (A similar poll, held at a Seattle convention a few weeks later, yielded very different results.)

And can we please drive a stake through this stubborn myth that "most" Trek fans don't like the reboot? Hell, the endless debates on this very board prove that isn't the case.

The "fans" have never spoken with one voice and they never will. And the people who adamantly reject the reboot are a vocal minority at best. Like it or not.
It's not a myth, I see people bash the reboot all of the time. I've personally seen countless people bashing this version of Trek. Too many to count.
Yes. I'm sure there are people who object to the reboot, but they don't speak for all of us. What I'm objecting to the insistence that "the fans" or "the real fans" or "the true fans" or "most fans" are united in their opinion.

In my experience, this usually translates to "me and all the people who agree with me" . . . .

Contrary to myth, there is no huge fan backlash.
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Old September 5 2013, 03:46 AM   #383
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

James wrote: View Post
Even Star Wars didn't retread over already established incidents.
I could have sworn I saw them blow up Death Stars in both A New Hope and Return of the Jedi. But I'm getting old and the memory tends to play tricks. Maybe you can correct my memory?
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Old September 5 2013, 03:48 AM   #384
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Funny thing is the numbers don't even matter.
Numbers always matter, especially when it comes to studios spending a hundred-million plus dollars on a product.
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Old September 5 2013, 04:20 AM   #385
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

James wrote: View Post
It had to be more than 100 fans were polled in that worst Star Trek movie poll or else it wouldn't have been news. Most Star Trek fans don't like the reboot franchise, like it or not.
Why would it have to be more than 100 fans to make the news? It made the news because it was a good sound byte.

Most? Based on what? People you've talked to? Even polls on this site show that the reboot is popular.
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Old September 5 2013, 05:45 AM   #386
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

In response to all of the Star Trek being super violent stuff. I really don't consider Star Trek as violent compared to today's TV shows. There wasn't blood and guts spraying everywhere with viewers looking into the dead person's opened bloody chest. I've never had to close to my eyes and put my fingers in my ears while watching Star Trek because Khan was cracking someone's head like an egg. That sound bothered me so freaking much. Here is something I found that basically describes my exact feelings about Star Trek (with TNG in mind since I grew up with it and new Trek doesn't feel like this):
"In the media, Star Trek has always been portrayed as a sad and confusing show for nerds, but for me, Star Trek has always been about hope. Hope that someday things like racism, sexism, war and poverty will no longer exist. I watch TNG because the world it portrays is infinitely better than the one in which we currently reside."

Now there are many things in Star Trek that I would not like to live with. And now there will be fifty million posts about how racist and sexist Star Trek actually is. So have at it and basically ruin everything Star Trek is with arguing, that pretty much takes all the joy away from it. And that's what Star Trek is to a lot of people. Joy. I turn into a five year old happy child when I watch Star Trek and I don't give a crap about every single minute detail. Moffet didn't write it!
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Old September 5 2013, 07:27 AM   #387
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

BillJ wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Funny thing is the numbers don't even matter.
Numbers always matter, especially when it comes to studios spending a hundred-million plus dollars on a product.
Way to take a snippet out of a longer post out of context.
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Old September 5 2013, 07:40 AM   #388
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
That silly Vegas poll by no means represented the majority of fans. It was a hundred people at the convention attended by thousands. (Just to put things in perspective, there are currently over five hundred fans online at this very board.)

And the "Hardcore Fans" are only a tiny segment of the movie-going audience to begin with . . .
The problem is that they bark louder than the fans here, so Paramount and maybe Abram will hear their voice more than from the invisible fans in here.

To tell the truth, Star Trek's survival as a franchise is in danger nowadays So a failed single Star Trek Movie in the market will cause Paramount to move on and forget it. Yet there are still hardcore fans who want to kill this franchise in the name of "Prime Dimension". But well, maybe they right, Star Trek as a franchise should die, so we all can move on and return to reality again.
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Old September 5 2013, 10:13 AM   #389
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
As fas as I know, the discovery of Khan and the bit with Spock and Kirk in the engine core are the only portions of the story that are similar in any way. There's nothing else in the story that's lifted from any other Trek story.
This is almost a parody post.
Then by all means, list all the things that are lifted from other movies or episodes.

Kirk the Jerk wrote: View Post
You were the one who challenged my comment in the first place so surely it's you that has to put in the effort to prove me wrong? Not just say I'm wrong by saying its about a younger Kirk and Spock etc.
First, could you please learn to use the quote function properly so the name of the person you are replying to appears with the link to the original post ? It's very difficult to spot posts replying to me, the way you're doing it.

Second, you're the one who is making a positive claim. Proving a negative is almost impossible, which is why the burden of proof in court is on the prosecution, same in science where it's on the person trying to overthrow existing theories, etc.. I am challenging you to support your claim.

Wow, So as far as you know SECTION 31 has never been mentioned in any other trek story?
I think you are confused. Mentioning an element isn't the same as lifting it from previous things. Otherwise the third episode of TOS would've ripped off the second pilot because Spock and Kirk were in it, too.


bbjeg wrote: View Post
I can go on but hopefully you get the point.
No, I don't get the point. None of that qualifies. Here's the original claim:

Kirk the Jerk wrote:
I'm all for going back personally, rather than sitting through another Into Darkness, which basically used the same story and just switched characters when it came to 'Who dies of radiation poisoning' and piled in a load of CGI explosions etc.
This poster said that it used the same story, presumably as Star Trek II. Same story. Not same characters or the SAME UNIVERSE. Of course Section 31 can be there: they're part of the Star Trek universe. DS9 used them more than once, does that mean the second episode in whichi they did was the same story as the first ? That makes no sense.

You guys are going to have to do better than just list individual elements. We are talking about "the same story".
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Old September 5 2013, 10:15 AM   #390
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
You can't dismiss two huge examples of 'lifted' elements by saying "yeah, but apart from that..." and expect your point to be taken seriously in any way.
Why not ? That scene takes up about five minutes of a two hour movie, so it's reasonable to ask why those five minutes suddenly make the whole movie a rip-off. You are dodging the question.
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