RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,664
Posts: 5,429,116
Members: 24,815
Currently online: 431
Newest member: AlphaZero


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 3 2013, 07:30 PM   #16
BoredShipCapt'n
Commodore
 
BoredShipCapt'n's Avatar
 
Location: a-puffin' on his pipe in his hobbit ho-hole
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Hambone wrote: View Post
I'm still hoping for a Lost In Space/Gilligan's Island crossover.
The closest you'll get is Far Out Space Nuts.

BoredShipCapt'n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 07:33 PM   #17
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Part of LIS' problem is they wrote themselves into a box. By stranding the ship planet bound everything had to come to them. In a way it was a sci-fi version of Gilligan's Island. If they had definitely decided upon staying grounded for only the first season and getting back into space for the second (they did for the third season) then you open up story possibilities.

The thing is, too, is intent. GR and crew had a clear idea of what they wanted with Star Trek, and it was the more challenging idea: do fantastic stories straight and with an adult sensibility and a sense of credibility. This meant they had definite "do's" and "don'ts" to guide them.

LIS, on the other hand, got evermore silly as it just basically made it up as they went along. It effectively became a live-action cartoon.

If someone were to try rebooting LIS and better explore its potential and get back to the early sensibility then I think it would work best as a miniseries. That way you could plot out exactly what you wanted to do and not get bogged down in trying to pull something out of your ass just to have something to broadcast.

I love the episodic series of old, but the times have changed and I can see it being very challenging to do open ended episodic series now. I'm thinking science fiction might now be better served if it could be produced like shows done on HBO and the like: 10-13 episodes where you can plan out what you need to accomplish. This might also give you more resources (money) and definitely more time to put it all together.

I think the specialty channels are where to go now because people (particularly guys) are abandoning commercial network television in droves.

I'm thinking that if they can do fantasy like Game Of Thrones and period pieces like Mad Men and Boardwalk Empire as well as other period miniseries then someone can do science fiction. It's just a matter of someone being interested enough to want to do it because I think there is an audience for it. I suspect space adventure isn't going to happen again on network television---it just doesn't fit the target audiences there anymore given it's also skewing evermore toward women.

Beyond fans of SF literature no one was screaming for a show like The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits or Star Trek. The creators of those respective shows each took a chance believing there was an audience for such materiel. I think the same is true today. The accepted "wisdom" presently is that SF on television, and particularly space adventure, is dead, but I think since everyone just believes it no one is really trying. But that doesn't mean there isn't an audience out there waiting for it.

If someone introduced a space adventure concept made of the likes of TOS or Babylon 5 or Stargate I'd be on it in a heartbeat. If it's good then I'd also be buying the subsequent DVD or Blu-Ray box sets and tie-in merchandise as well.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?

Last edited by Warped9; September 3 2013 at 07:49 PM.
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 08:43 PM   #18
ssosmcin
Rear Admiral
 
ssosmcin's Avatar
 
Location: ssosmcin
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

It's funny to read people saying they'd have probably found Star Trek boring as a young child because it was so serious, or whatever. I've been a fan since I was 4 (or younger, this is as far back as my memory goes) and I never found the original series anything less than fun and exciting. And I still have great love for all of the Irwin Allen shows.

Warped9 wrote: View Post
No matter my opinion and even after all these years I still think the Jupiter II is very cool. It seems such a pity they designed a cool ship and then after the pilot (worked into the first few episodes) we never saw it fly again until the third season, which by then the show was in colour and so ridiculous it was practically unwatchable.
Actually, it took off in the second season premiere, stayed up for a few episodes before crashing down on a planet and meeting Wally Cox and his Chicken Monster.
__________________
"Tranya is people!"
ssosmcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 08:46 PM   #19
ssosmcin
Rear Admiral
 
ssosmcin's Avatar
 
Location: ssosmcin
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Grant wrote: View Post
What if he had been gotten rid of---could the level of seriousness been brought to a level between the mostly serious of TOS and the 'completely ridiculous' that it devolved into?

Could the show have had youth appeal and gotten adult or serious sci-fi fans to say...

"That was a bit of sci-fi fun." as opposed to

"what a bunch of kiddie-crap."
All you have to do is look at the other 3 Irwin Allen sf series and you can make a good guess. The plots would have become repetitive and silly with weird silver skinned aliens and lots of "duplicates" of the regular cast to save money. It never would have retained the feel of the first episodes and probably not lasted as long as it did.
__________________
"Tranya is people!"
ssosmcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 09:10 PM   #20
Grant
Fleet Captain
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
What if he had been gotten rid of---could the level of seriousness been brought to a level between the mostly serious of TOS and the 'completely ridiculous' that it devolved into?

Could the show have had youth appeal and gotten adult or serious sci-fi fans to say...

"That was a bit of sci-fi fun." as opposed to

"what a bunch of kiddie-crap."
All you have to do is look at the other 3 Irwin Allen sf series and you can make a good guess. The plots would have become repetitive and silly with weird silver skinned aliens and lots of "duplicates" of the regular cast to save money. It never would have retained the feel of the first episodes and probably not lasted as long as it did.
So you are saying that without the Dr Smith/Will dynamic it would have failed earlier?

that's sad.
Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 09:30 PM   #21
Push The Button
Captain
 
Push The Button's Avatar
 
Location: Smithfield, Rhode Island USA
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Warped9 wrote: View Post

If someone were to try rebooting LIS and better explore its potential and get back to the early sensibility then I think it would work best as a miniseries. That way you could plot out exactly what you wanted to do and not get bogged down in trying to pull something out of your ass just to have something to broadcast.
How about a dark, gritty version, something like the BSG reboot?
Then you could have someone finally give Smith his due and flush him out of an airlock.

I watched the movie remake 15 years ago, but I can only remember Heather Graham, the rest of it was too dreadful and my brain must have deleted it.
__________________
Let's make sure history never forgets...
the name...
Enterprise
Push The Button is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 09:37 PM   #22
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Grant wrote: View Post
So you are saying that without the Dr Smith/Will dynamic it would have failed earlier?

that's sad.
Irwin Allen tried to repeat the Dr. Smith/Will Robinson dynamic in Land of the Giants with Mr. Fitzhugh and whatever that kid's name was.

Push the Button wrote:
the rest of it was too dreadful and my brain must have deleted it.
Two words: Gary Oldman.
__________________
Curly: If at first you don't succeed, keep on suckin' til you do succeed.
--Movie Maniacs (1936)
Melakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 09:40 PM   #23
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

I would have been fine with the light and silly tone of LIS if the writing had actually been somewhat witty and clever (along the lines of the 60s Batman, or hell even The Addams Family). But other than the occasional witty remark from the Robot, most of the writing on the show was just abysmal.

Even for a kid's show, you'd think they could have put a bit more effort into it than they did.
davejames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 09:57 PM   #24
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Push The Button wrote: View Post
How about a dark, gritty version, something like the BSG reboot? Then you could have someone finally give Smith his due and flush him out of an airlock.
I don't think it has to be that dark and edgy to work. Smith could just as easily try to sabotage things (the launch) out of misguided beliefs or even just out of coercion.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 11:59 PM   #25
Duncan MacLeod
Fleet Captain
 
Duncan MacLeod's Avatar
 
Location: New England
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

And he could be trapped aboard because his "employers" are trying to get rid of the evidence.

Which actually might be the first step in his redemption, once he realized what actually happened.

Just throwing out a possibility.
Duncan MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2013, 12:13 AM   #26
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Grant wrote: View Post
I wonder if--as they must have thought--Dr Smith was actually helping the show?
He certainly was. His antics were very popular. After all, it was a show whose audience was largely children.


What if he had been gotten rid of---could the level of seriousness been brought to a level between the mostly serious of TOS and the 'completely ridiculous' that it devolved into?
Well, first off, I'm not sure TOS is the right comparison, since the shows weren't trying to reach the same demographic. One was a family show, the other an adult drama.

Second, I think most of the first season did achieve what you're talking about. Remember, the descent into sheer camp wasn't just about Dr. Smith, since it didn't happen until the second season. It was about competing with Batman. People forget what a massive, industry-shaking hit and cultural phenomenon Batman was in its first season. And there's always a drive in TV and movies to imitate big hits. Not only Lost in Space but The Man from U.N.C.L.E. got more campy in response to it and in an attempt to compete wtih it.

So without Dr. Smith, if the show had been popular enough to get a second season, it would probably still have been camped up to compete with Batman. But conversely, if Batman hadn't existed, then LiS with Dr. Smith would've remained, if not serious, at least nowhere near as campy and intentionally ludicrous as it became.



Warped9 wrote: View Post
Part of LIS' problem is they wrote themselves into a box. By stranding the ship planet bound everything had to come to them. In a way it was a sci-fi version of Gilligan's Island.
But it also saved them the expense of rebuilding the planet soundstage every week or showing takeoff/landing sequences regularly. Irwin Allen was famously cheap.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2013, 01:09 AM   #27
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Duncan MacLeod wrote: View Post
And he could be trapped aboard because his "employers" are trying to get rid of the evidence.

Which actually might be the first step in his redemption, once he realized what actually happened.

Just throwing out a possibility.
I think this could work. There's a tendency today to make most everything go "dark and edgy" because it's currently trendy, but it doesn't always have to be that way. By redeeming Smith and keeping it somewhat more mainstream then you don't risk automatically alienating a lot of fans of the original series.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2013, 01:39 AM   #28
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

I submit that we've already had a rebooted, redeemable Dr. Smith in a dark and edgy series. It's just that he was called Gaius Baltar instead.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2013, 02:01 AM   #29
Duncan MacLeod
Fleet Captain
 
Duncan MacLeod's Avatar
 
Location: New England
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

Wouldn't know. Never watched the remake. I know that it exists, that some characters had gender changes, practically all of them had personality changes, but that's about it.

I suggested it simply because it seemed logical.
Duncan MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2013, 05:26 AM   #30
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: STAR TREK the enemy of LOST IN SPACE?

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Actually, it took off in the second season premiere, stayed up for a few episodes before crashing down on a planet and meeting Wally Cox and his Chicken Monster.
Listen, that episode served up some bold social commentary on large birds and the danger of drinking high-explosive beverages. Things no other show was willing to talk about.



LIS might have been better off sticking to more realistic overall scenarios and leaving the comedy to Jonathan Harris. Dr. Smith's scene-stealing presence was like lightening in a bottle compared to the more workaday roles of John, Don, and Maureen.

Harris was the biggest thing LIS had that the other Irwin Allen shows did not. He literally stole (and I think saved) the show.

And this had an effect on Star Trek, because after Guy Williams famously became a supporting character in "his own" show, agents of leading men began demanding contract clauses that kept any character from having more lines than the official star. Thus William Shatner found himself having to count lines to ensure Nimoy wasn't getting more than him. It's not that Shatner was petty-- he was just trying to avoid the professional catastrophe that had befallen Guy Williams.
ZapBrannigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.