RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,893
Posts: 5,476,772
Members: 25,050
Currently online: 472
Newest member: aloraptor

TrekToday headlines

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Shatner Book Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Nov 20

Trek Original Series Slippers
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Hemsworth Is Sexiest Man Alive
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 2 2013, 11:01 PM   #16
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Enchantment
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Besides, isn't the JFK thing basically the same as "City..."?
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2013, 11:51 PM   #17
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

^I believe Sran just said that.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 03:16 AM   #18
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Not to mention that, whatever the story justification, having Spock kill Kennedy would have been a major turn-off for general audiences. Allowing him to be killed, a la Edith Keeler, might have worked.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 05:12 AM   #19
Captain Kathryn
Commodore
 
Captain Kathryn's Avatar
 
Location: NYC metropolitan area
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Captain Kathryn
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Spock killing Kennedy? WTF.
__________________
Once there was a grocery man whose name was simply Louie...until the day his store blew up and his produce went kablewie.

Dead Lazlo's Place
Captain Kathryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 03:14 PM   #20
SchwEnt
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Are we discussing GR's writing solely in ST?
ST can be a strangely unique creature, a genre all its own. Even talented experienced writers have had trouble writing for ST's particular format and style.

GR did other writing. The Lieutenant. Have Gun, Will Travel. TMP novel. Earth II/Genesis pilots.

Anyone can comment on GR's writing outside ST?
SchwEnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 03:30 PM   #21
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

I've only seen a clip of one Roddenberry-penned HG,WT episode, but I felt it was pretty smart and well-written. The TMP novelization? Interesting, but awkward. It's recognizably the work of a screenwriter who's never done prose before. It's imaginative in its futurism, but reflects Roddenberry's sexual preoccupations.

Genesis II also has some interesting ideas, but in many ways it's an awkward pilot conceptually and would've been hard to sustain as a series. The future society PAX is a little too forbidding and hard to like, despite its noble ideals. The biggest problem is the portrayal of Ted Cassidy's character Isaiah as a "White Comanche," wearing brownface and talking and acting like a stereotypical TV-Indian savage.

Planet Earth is a better pilot in a lot of ways, but it was co-written by Juanita Bartlett, and she manages to temper a lot of GR's excesses, so that the plot of Dylan Hunt using his masculinity to win over the head of a female-dominated society turns out more humorous and mutually respectful than the masculine fantasy it could've been.

The Questor Tapes is also rather good, but it was co-written by GR and Gene L. Coon, and Coon was a very good writer.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 04:40 PM   #22
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Christopher wrote: View Post
The Questor Tapes is also rather good, but it was co-written by GR and Gene L. Coon, and Coon was a very good writer.
But whatever you do, don't mention The Questor Tapes to Nimoy. I hear he's still bitter about being dropped from the lead role.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 04:49 PM   #23
BoredShipCapt'n
Commodore
 
BoredShipCapt'n's Avatar
 
Location: Sickbay, with a headache
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think he had some really good ideas in him, but wasn't always great at execution, and had some pretty lame ideas too. I think "The Cage" is a solid piece of science fiction and an effective character study of Pike. Yet many of his credited scripts or stories for TOS are loaded with silly parallel-Earth stuff ("Bread and Circuses," "The Omega Glory") or rampant sexism ("Mudd's Women," "Turnabout Intruder").
To be fair, I don't think the word "sexism" was even coined until 1970. Probably in response to something Roddenberry did.

Sran wrote: View Post

But whatever you do, don't mention The Questor Tapes to Nimoy. I hear he's still bitter about being dropped from the lead role.

--Sran
The Robert Foxworth role, or the Mike Farrell role?
BoredShipCapt'n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 04:57 PM   #24
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
The Robert Foxworth role, or the Mike Farrell role?
Foxworth. Nimoy was supposed to get the role- and actually did have it for a while- until it was decided that Foxworth was a better fit. Nimoy called Roddenberry and screamed at him over the phone.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 05:08 PM   #25
BoredShipCapt'n
Commodore
 
BoredShipCapt'n's Avatar
 
Location: Sickbay, with a headache
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Sran wrote: View Post
BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
The Robert Foxworth role, or the Mike Farrell role?
Foxworth. Nimoy was supposed to get the role- and actually did have it for a while- until it was decided that Foxworth was a better fit. Nimoy called Roddenberry and screamed at him over the phone.

--Sran
Foxworth was convincing as an unfinished android. I think they made the right choice.
BoredShipCapt'n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 07:01 PM   #26
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

I'm not sure Roddenberry was even that great when it came to ideas. I think his real talent was surrounding himself talented people.
Harvey wrote: View Post
From what I've read, as the movie series went along, Roddenberry spent less and less time dictating memos of any sort about them. In the Star Trek II production files there are a number of detailed memos from Roddenberry about the script; in the Star Trek VI production files there are none.
Well, that's probably because when Roddenberry tried to speak his mind Nick Meyer told him to go jump off a cliff.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 07:26 PM   #27
marksound
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Planet Carcazed
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Nimoy would have been better in the Mike Farrell role. It would have given him a chance to show his acting chops as a human instead of an alien or an android. Just sayin'.

Can't remember though, was Questor before or after Nimoy's stint on Mission: Impossible?
marksound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 07:29 PM   #28
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Well, that's probably because when Roddenberry tried to speak his mind Nick Meyer told him to go jump off a cliff.
To be fair, Roddenberry threw a fit about Meyer's original plan of making Saavik the traitor because he didn't like the idea of such a popular character betraying her shipmates. Meyer told him, "Well, I'm the one who created the Saavik character, so I can use her however I want. If you have a problem with it, then maybe you should give back all the money you made off the films I was involved with. Then I'll care what you think."

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 07:40 PM   #29
jpv2000
Captain
 
jpv2000's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, United States
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I'm not sure Roddenberry was even that great when it came to ideas. I think his real talent was surrounding himself talented people.
This is the way I feel about it. I'm just glad all those talented people were around.
jpv2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2013, 07:52 PM   #30
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Enchantment
Re: Was Roddenberry a Terrible Writer?

BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
Foxworth was convincing as an unfinished android. I think they made the right choice.
Foxworth is a better actor than Nimoy.

*Hides*


Sran wrote: View Post
To be fair, Roddenberry threw a fit about Meyer's original plan of making Saavik the traitor because he didn't like the idea of such a popular character betraying her shipmates. Meyer told him, "Well, I'm the one who created the Saavik character, so I can use her however I want. If you have a problem with it, then maybe you should give back all the money you made off the films I was involved with. Then I'll care what you think."
--Sran
I've heard this before and always found it a bit contemptuous on Meyer's part. I agree that it was probably the right thing to do and the she was his character and he could do what he wanted with her, but the whole "give back the money" bit, aside from being douchey, is asinine and presumptuous.

For one thing, had it not been for Star Trek, Meyer would still be a hack nobody. And, frankly, outside of Trekdom, he is a hack nobody.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:23 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.