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Old September 2 2013, 11:05 PM   #16
Captain Rob
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Let the jokes begin. The next Enterprise is a Ford.
Fix or repair daily. Scotty will have his hands full.
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Old September 2 2013, 11:06 PM   #17
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Duncan MacLeod wrote: View Post
I don't mind the business suits of the day. Compared to the ones from the 60s they were pretty sharp.

But, unless you were tall and slim, the leisure suits were just horrid!
If Shatner had shown up at the shuttle rollout he probably would have worn something as grotty as his Ward Fowler suit and hat from Columbo.
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Old September 2 2013, 11:10 PM   #18
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

danellis wrote: View Post
CoveTom wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Maybe someday, with some future generation of spacecraft. It was a distinguished name prior to Trek, and a lot of later-generation scientists, astronauts, etc. have been Trek fans.
And it still is a distinguished name outside of Trek. The U.S. Naval aircraft carrier Enterprise was just recently taken out of service. And despite the fact that the Navy has gotten into the practice of naming their aircraft carriers after presidents -- a practice I deplore, BTW -- they've announced that the new Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carrier CVN-80 would be named Enterprise.
I'd was about to ask about that: whether StarTrek had diminished the name in the eyes of the Navy.

dJE
Good to hear that it hasn't. Very glad to hear there will be a new Enterprise carrier.
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Old September 3 2013, 01:12 AM   #19
Nine of Four
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

danellis wrote: View Post
CoveTom wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Maybe someday, with some future generation of spacecraft. It was a distinguished name prior to Trek, and a lot of later-generation scientists, astronauts, etc. have been Trek fans.
And it still is a distinguished name outside of Trek. The U.S. Naval aircraft carrier Enterprise was just recently taken out of service. And despite the fact that the Navy has gotten into the practice of naming their aircraft carriers after presidents -- a practice I deplore, BTW -- they've announced that the new Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carrier CVN-80 would be named Enterprise.
I'd was about to ask about that: whether StarTrek had diminished the name in the eyes of the Navy.

dJE
I seriously doubt anyone in the navy knows what Star Trek even is.....
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Old September 3 2013, 01:52 AM   #20
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

What I've always wondered, if the space shuttle was named Enterprise because of Star Trek, than what's the reason for it being named that in-universe? Presumably in-universe there is no Star Trek chronicling adventures of starships named Enterprise in the 23rd and 24th centuries. So why did the space shuttle Constitution get renamed Enterprise?
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Old September 3 2013, 02:06 AM   #21
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
As part of my ongoing "educational" efforts I felt it necessary to start researching a bit more of Star Trek related NASA history.

Here is a genuine article from 1976 how NASA changed the name of the first (atmospheric testlight only) Space Shuttle from Constitution to Enterprise.
I should like to point out there is a striking lack of primary documentation saying that NASA had ever intended to name the first space shuttle orbiter (OV-101) Constitution. Even ordinarily quite good resources, such as Heppenheimer's detailed histories of the Space Shuttle's development and construction, pass along reports of the name change without ever citing a NASA memorandum or report on 1976 orbiter name suggestions.

There are quite good references to the name selection process from 1978 (when Columbia, Challenger, and Discovery were named), broken down into what the names might refer to and what connotations they might offer; and there are voluminous ones from the late 80s when the need to name another orbiter came about. But an actual NASA memorandum from 1975 or 1976 specifying that OV-101 would be named Constitution? I have not come across it, nor found anyone who has, in my inquiries to space historians. (I admit I haven't asked Heppenheimer, but really ought to.)

Note that I am not asserting that Constitution wasn't pencilled in as a name; merely that I have not found any primary sources which state that it was.

If Constitution was the name selected, then who are the people who selected it, and when was it selected, and where is that decision recorded? Note that no popular account of the Constitution name change answers those questions. (I can provide names and dates for the 1978 name reviews, for example, and don't just because I would have to walk all the way downstairs to get my reference for it; if you really wish to know, however, I can provide names and dates.) It does not satisfy the thoughtful historian to say ``NASA suggested the name'', as ``NASA'' is hundreds of thousands of people, and not all of them were involved in shuttle naming, and they surely did not come to spontaneous unanimous agreement without discussion or thought.

Given the lack of evidence, however, I submit that it is more likely that no particular thought was given to naming the orbiters at all, at least before Trekkies got into the game. Proving there wasn't such thought is hard to do, but I think anyone arguing that there were names in mind has to explain the curious anomaly in NASA SP-4402, Origins Of NASA Names, http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4402/ch4.htm, which identifies origins of the names for all NASA projects, including space capsules, and including proposed but rejected names, up to 1976.

While the ``Space Shuttle'' name is traced and explained, there is no suggestion that any names for the individual orbiters has been given, nor that it's been under consideration. Given that this is a book that sees the need to describe why the ``Orbiting Frog Otolith'' satellite was called that (and it was an orbiting satellite to study frog otoliths, the inner ear balance mechanism), it is bizarre that SP-4402 would omit surely the most interesting naming question of 1976.

Note that no Gemini capsules were named after Gemini 3 (though the earliest astronauts had some names in mind), nor were Apollo capsules named except when there would be two vehicles from the same mission operating simultaneously. There would not, by 1976-era mission planning, ever be two shuttles from the same mission orbiting simultaneously. Radio communications --- the primary need for vehicle names --- would have been satisfied by using the mission number, as was done with Gemini 7 and 6 flew simultaneously.

In short: while it has been a popular story since the shuttle Enterprise was debuted to say that it would have been named Constitution if not for the Trekkies, I point out there is a distinct lack of primary evidence that there was any name in mind for the first shuttle orbiter vehicle before the Trekkie campaign.
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Old September 3 2013, 02:35 AM   #22
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
What I've always wondered, if the space shuttle was named Enterprise because of Star Trek, than what's the reason for it being named that in-universe? Presumably in-universe there is no Star Trek chronicling adventures of starships named Enterprise in the 23rd and 24th centuries. So why did the space shuttle Constitution get renamed Enterprise?
The name Enterprise has quite an extensive and honorable tradition throughout history in both the British and United States Navies, as well as in other areas. I would say that, in-universe, the name was chosen merely as part of this lineage, without connection to any fictional science fiction franchise.
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Old September 3 2013, 03:02 AM   #23
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
junxon wrote: View Post
It was probably more 'we want a shuttle called enterprise because we like star trek', not 'we specifically hate the name constitution for some reason'.
Hmm...you're possibly right, but surely the fans must have felt compelled to deliver some good reasons against Constitution and on behalf of Enterprise.
I had no direct involvement in the naming campaign, but I don't recall any such reasons ever getting mention. Heck, I'm not even sure I remember the name "Constitution" coming up at any point. A bunch of Trekkies just thought it ought to be called "Enterprise".
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Old September 3 2013, 09:07 AM   #24
Robert Comsol
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Here is what appears to be the official record of NASA: http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/s...nterprise.html

"Constitution Day" was apparently the major inspiration for the Orbiter's original name proposal.

The question therefore is: Were the fans aware of such intentions or did they simply want the vessel to be named Enterprise (assuming no name had been intended, yet)?

Bob

P.S. Trek BBS moderators...what happened to the thread title? I know that one mod wants to put F-U back into "fun" but what's the point of removing "se" of Enterpri.. ?
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Old September 3 2013, 01:12 PM   #25
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
P.S. Trek BBS moderators...what happened to the thread title? I know that one mod wants to put F-U back into "fun" but what's the point of removing "se" of Enterpri.. ?
It started with the first response, which added an "Re:" to the title in that and all subsequent posts.

My best guess is that the original title was right at the character limit, and the "Re:" forced a cutoff at the end of it.

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Old September 3 2013, 01:30 PM   #26
jpv2000
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Nine of Four wrote: View Post
I seriously doubt anyone in the navy knows what Star Trek even is.....
You might be surprised. I sell Star Trek items, and fully half my Trek customers are in the military. I also shipped one item to the White House.
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Old September 3 2013, 01:40 PM   #27
BoredShipCapt'n
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
And if I'm not mistaken that's Jesco von Puttkamer (second on the right from Koenig) who's looking at the Enterprise and probably thinking "If they ever do a Star Trek film I'd like to contribute scientific expertise and explain how the warp drive could function."

Bob
Damn, there's a name I hadn't thought of in 34 years. I see where he just died last December, too.

R.I.P.
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Old September 3 2013, 04:40 PM   #28
B.J.
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Some people over at CollectSpace were researching the question about the orbiter names several years ago. Here's a link to that thread: http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Foru...ML/000317.html They had help from Valerie Neal at the National Air and Space Museum in researching all of this.

May 1977 — naming process not yet started, according to a letter from the Assoc. Admin. for External Affairs

Jan. 1978 — Office of Public Affairs internal memo suggested that Orbiter 102 be named Kitty Hawk

May 1978 — a naming committee that was formed at NASA HQ reported a list of recommended "names having a significant relationship to the heritage of the United States or to the shuttle's mission of exploration." Kitty Hawk was 11th in a prioritized list of 15 names headed by Constitution and Independence. (Columbia was not on that list.)
Apparently Young and Crippen (the crew of the first shuttle flight) preferred "Kitty Hawk" for the name, and that's why Robert McCall has that in his sketches for the patch design: http://www.mccallstudios.com/images/...y/0253-025.jpg

NASA announced the names of the four orbiter fleet on February 1, 1979, in press release no. 79-06, "Shuttle Orbiters Named after Sea Vessels". http://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/...1main_1979.pdf


Here's the rest of the name recommendations:
With credit to Valerie Neal, here is the list per a May 26, 1978 memo from the Associate Administrator for Space Transportation Systems (John Yardley) to the Director, Public Affairs on the subject: Recommended Orbiter Names.
Recommendations by an ad hoc committee on names for Space Shuttle Orbiters; chose "names having significant relationship to the heritage of the United States or to the Shuttle's mission of exploration."Recommended List of Orbiter Names
(In descending order of preference)
  1. Constitution
  2. Independence
  3. America
  4. Constellation
  5. Enterprise [reserved for possible 5th orbiter, to carry on OV-101's name]
  6. Discoverer
  7. Endeavour
  8. Liberty
  9. Freedom
  10. Eagle
  11. Kitty Hawk
  12. Pathfinder
  13. Adventurer
  14. Prospector
  15. Peace
Funny that Enterprise could have been an actual space-worthy shuttle if the Trekkies didn't get their way!
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Old September 3 2013, 10:34 PM   #29
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

danellis wrote: View Post
CoveTom wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Maybe someday, with some future generation of spacecraft. It was a distinguished name prior to Trek, and a lot of later-generation scientists, astronauts, etc. have been Trek fans.
And it still is a distinguished name outside of Trek. The U.S. Naval aircraft carrier Enterprise was just recently taken out of service. And despite the fact that the Navy has gotten into the practice of naming their aircraft carriers after presidents -- a practice I deplore, BTW -- they've announced that the new Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carrier CVN-80 would be named Enterprise.
I'd was about to ask about that: whether StarTrek had diminished the name in the eyes of the Navy.

dJE
Though I don't see her in the picture, was Majel Barret present at the event?

Or like NBC...did NASA try to cut her out?
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Old September 3 2013, 11:17 PM   #30
Robert Comsol
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Re: How Star Trek fans sunk the Constitution on behalf of the Enterpri

Here's a parallel thread with another neat picture: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...99#post8594299

Bob
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