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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old July 29 2013, 10:45 PM   #16
Praetor
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
It occurs to me that all the Nebula class ships might be precursors of the Galaxy class, the Galaxys are a follow on class, with the Nebula construction being discontinued prior to the construct of the first Galaxy.

(Yes, I had to quote the ginormous smilie.)

I like it. This is probably close to true - I mean, apparently the Galaxys were in development hell for a while, so maybe the Nebulas were meant to prove the concept and technology behind them, as well as fill in a support role once the Galaxys came online. Thus, they'd already all be built and in service by early in the Galaxy production run if not before.
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Old July 30 2013, 08:37 PM   #17
ProwlAlpha
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Roboturner913 wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
The U.S. navy currently has 22 active classes of ships.
Don't get me wrong, that's a good point ...
World wide there are over 3,000 active naval vessels, which include ....

20 aircrat carriers of 10 different classes.
169 destroyers of 32 different classes.
422 Frigates of 49 different classes.

... but at the same time they aren't building four or five different types of attack subs ...
Of the 398 attack subs in active service, 59 subs of 4 classes came from America (43 Los Angeles class, 2 Seawolf class, 6 Trafalgar class, 8 Virginia class).

5 different active service attack sub classes were built in Germany, 6 in Russia.

****

It occurs to me that all the Nebula class ships might be precursors of the Galaxy class, the Galaxys are a follow on class, with the Nebula construction being discontinued prior to the construct of the first Galaxy.

The Brits might get mad at having one of their classes included with the Americans (Trafalgar).

What was worse though in the Cold War, when pretty much the Cruisers, the destroyers, and the Frigates were all doing the same thing (Anti-Submarine Duties), except for a few large WWII cruisers that were converted to flagships. Even the Soviets decided to build the largest warship (outside carriers) devoted to ASW (Kirov's).

In re Starfleet, we just haven't seen them do too much on-screen other than failed explorers, guest star character transports, and cannon fodder in terms of non-hero ships.
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Old July 30 2013, 10:48 PM   #18
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Roboturner913 wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
The U.S. navy currently has 22 active classes of ships.
Don't get me wrong, that's a good point ...
World wide there are over 3,000 active naval vessels, which include ....

20 aircrat carriers of 10 different classes.
169 destroyers of 32 different classes.
422 Frigates of 49 different classes.

... but at the same time they aren't building four or five different types of attack subs ...
Of the 398 attack subs in active service, 59 subs of 4 classes came from America (43 Los Angeles class, 2 Seawolf class, 6 Trafalgar class, 8 Virginia class).

5 different active service attack sub classes were built in Germany, 6 in Russia.

****

It occurs to me that all the Nebula class ships might be precursors of the Galaxy class, the Galaxys are a follow on class, with the Nebula construction being discontinued prior to the construct of the first Galaxy.

Isn't the Trafalgar Class Submarine operated by the RN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafalgar-class_submarine

The Astute Class being the other class operated by the RN
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Old July 30 2013, 11:40 PM   #19
danellis
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
The Astute Class being the other class operated by the RN
The Royal Navy have two classes of submarine?

According to the Daily Mail we probably don't even have two submarines ^_^

dJE
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Old August 1 2013, 12:55 AM   #20
ProwlAlpha
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

danellis wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
The Astute Class being the other class operated by the RN
The Royal Navy have two classes of submarine?

According to the Daily Mail we probably don't even have two submarines ^_^

dJE
Since the Astute, herself, is plagued by bad luck. I would venture that is a close assumption.
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Old August 2 2013, 05:44 PM   #21
137th Gebirg
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
This really is...quite...hypnotizing...
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Old August 3 2013, 04:37 PM   #22
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

Different ship classes may simply be the result of different design bureaus and build programs. Maybe it's politically easier to get approval for a new and different class of ship through the Federation Council than it is to authorize the construction of more ships of an existing class?
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Old August 4 2013, 05:01 AM   #23
T'Girl
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Isn't the Trafalgar Class Submarine operated by the RN
And built in Britain too, my mistake.

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Old August 10 2013, 12:06 AM   #24
Brainsucker
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

I think because the condition of the Federation force them to do that.

Remember that there are many adversaries in the galaxy that surpass the Federation in both of technology and military power. Thus the Federation needs to develop their Space Navy more and more. And because of the rapid expansion and development of the new technologies (to chase and to reach the Borg technological level) they need to build new ship classes again and again.

Don't use USN as the benchmark / example for the situation of Starfleet, as USN is stay on the highest tier in naval capability on Earth this day. That's why they don't need too many classes to fulfill the role in their rank. Just look at the fleet. There are only a few type of capable USN warships out there. From the old Oliver Hazard Perry, Ticonderoga Class, to Areligh Burge flight 1 and Flight 2A, and 2 Littoral combat Ships classes (and later Sumwalt and Burge III - I use Cruiser, destroyer and frigate and avoid other classes like carrier and LHD etc). Because they are the leader of the world Navy, they don't need to many ship class to fulfill the navy need.

Yet, it is different to China, where is in rapid development and expansion of their navy capability. There are many ship classes type that overlap one to another. Ranged from 051, then 051A, 051B, and 051C, then they have 052, 052A, 052B, 052C, 052D, they have also Russia's Sovr (I forgot how to write it), with Frigates like 054, 054A, 053 with their many variations) and later they will develop 055 Destroyer / Cruiser, and the next gen frigate 054B. Remember, in China, the class 052B and 052C are entirely two different ship classes and have different roles, although both use 052 type hulls and their designation are destroyer.

Not only that, they have even have a lot of submarines classes (Kilo, Improved Kilo, Song, Ming, Yuan, Han, Sui etc) compared to the USN's Los Angeles, Virginia, Ohio, and Seawolf.

So I think the state of Starfleet is the same as China in modern day. They expand, they develop, they improve, but they are not satisfied (yet) to their current level of capability, because they use Borg (and later Dominion) as the benchmark of their development project.

Look at what happen to the new toys that developed by the Fed since the incoming of Borg in TNG. Steamrunner, Defiant, Akira, etc. None of them are capable to match a single borg cube (Star Trek First Contact). So that's why they still developing and build more new ship class. Who know, one of them will capable to match a borg cube. But I think that rapid / crazy development will be slowed down after the event of Star Trek Voyager. The new techs and weapons that brought by the Voyager give the Federation more than enough weapon to stand toe on toe against anyone in the milky way galaxy. IF our Star Trek Writers know about military logic a bit, the new Luna Class should be a new Starship that capable to equip and exploit the new found technology from Voyager, and thus will become their new Ace against the next borg onslought.

Last edited by Brainsucker; August 10 2013 at 12:23 AM.
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Old August 11 2013, 03:24 AM   #25
The Emissary
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

You all gave great answers. I'll give my mediocre suggestion.

Is it possible that the diversity of ship designs with very little uniqueness to offer comes from input of the non-humans in the UFP? Like the Norway class is the Vulcan answer to Intrepid? Akira is the Andorian answer to Defiant?

Something like that?
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Old August 11 2013, 04:14 AM   #26
Unicron
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

Well, several of the FASA classes (Andor, Loknar and Thufir - missile cruiser, frigate and destroyer respectively) were mentioned as having been primarily designed by Andorian interests and the Loknars even seemed to have a number of crews who were exclusively Andorian. But it's not clear exactly what defined their "Andorian" traits otherwise since their designs are largely consistent with basic UFP principles. One could argue that the Andorians, having a racial inclination towards violence to some degree, found a natural home in Starfleet as military officers and would likely be supportive of designing warships to deal with enemies like the Klingons and the Romulans.
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Old August 11 2013, 04:34 AM   #27
The Emissary
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

Unicron wrote: View Post
Well, several of the FASA classes (Andor, Loknar and Thufir - missile cruiser, frigate and destroyer respectively) were mentioned as having been primarily designed by Andorian interests and the Loknars even seemed to have a number of crews who were exclusively Andorian. But it's not clear exactly what defined their "Andorian" traits otherwise since their designs are largely consistent with basic UFP principles. One could argue that the Andorians, having a racial inclination towards violence to some degree, found a natural home in Starfleet as military officers and would likely be supportive of designing warships to deal with enemies like the Klingons and the Romulans.
That's pretty cool. I never knew that.

Kind of explains what the non-humans in the UFP get to contribute to ship design. :P
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Old August 14 2013, 04:51 AM   #28
Nob Akimoto
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that having a lot of ship classes is particularly unrealistic. This is particularly true when ship designs have extremely long designed hull lives and an ability to be refitted with modern technology regularly. If we go with modern hull designs where you have a relatively small number of capital ships, I suppose having a handful of modular ship classes that you can mass produce makes sense, but when you consider the sheer number of shipyards, potential designers and mission capabilities required by Starfleet, you're probably looking at a model more similar to the Royal Navy of the 19th century where you had ship "rates" that fell into general capabilities, but then design classes that were dependent on who the Surveyors of the Navy (designers) were, which civilian yards were getting contracts, who was in power at the Admiralty, etc.

For example between 1780 and 1830 there were at least 25 distinct classes of 74-gun third rate ships of the line designed in England, with many of these ships serving for the duration of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. (1791 - 1815 so far as the RN was concerned) This isn't counting of course the various captures that the RN had gotten from the French, Spanish and other navies, which would add another 5-10 distinct classes just for battleships alone. Add everything from luggers to cutters, sloops and frigates, and you have well over 100 classes of vessel being used by the first truly global power.
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Old August 15 2013, 05:28 AM   #29
SWHouston
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

As I said in my previous post, there really isn't any rhyme or reason, it's just the nature of "us", and shows up in reality and fantasy.

Just compare it to the Automotive Industry, everybody thinks their version is better than another, and many people agree given the sales numbers. A term for it/that is "competition". There's no reason for this element to be excluded from Fantasy.
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Old September 2 2013, 08:31 PM   #30
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Re: Why so many ship classes?....it doesn't seem realistic.

Does this include submarines and surface ships? To be a true comparison, you'd need to pick one or the other. Just curious.
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