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Old September 2 2013, 06:41 PM   #286
Mojochi
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Emh wrote: View Post
I continue to be in awe how effortlessly Walter tells ridiculous lies like they're everyday facts. And people believe him
No one believes his lies, not even Junior. Even when they look like they fall for it, they still got a look on like "This is BS". Skylar at the carwash when Walt got his gun. You could tell she decided to just take him at his word, but her expression said "What's this all about then?"

Walt fabricates the poorest lies I've ever heard. He knows people won't truly believe them, & he knows they'll know that about him. "He's telling lies he'll know I won't believe". He does it anyway, because by doing so, he looks sad, desperate, & weak, like a victim with no alternative but to conjure sad bullshit. It's his whole gambit, playing the schnuck. Walt is Keyser Soze. He'll stare you right in the face & you'll think how could anyone be so pitiful?


Emh wrote: View Post
The only thing I didn't like about this episode was not seeing Gomez's reacation about finding out the truth about Walter. I've been waiting for that moment all season.
We saw his reaction. "This stinks" "We got nothing but a drugged up loser, & a DEA agent with a vendetta" His expression said it all
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Old September 2 2013, 07:08 PM   #287
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Emh wrote: View Post
The only thing I didn't like about this episode was not seeing Gomez's reacation about finding out the truth about Walter. I've been waiting for that moment all season.
I agree. Especially since Hank made such a big deal out of the fact that Walt was Heisenberg. He seemed afraid at how the DEA would respond. I was expecting at least some kind of conversation about it with Gomez. Maybe it was a deleted scene.
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Old September 2 2013, 07:17 PM   #288
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
That's what I meant to say. She's not fully on-board, but she's dealing with it as best as she can. I think the most telling part was the line "We've come this far... what's one more?" or something along those lines. Skyler has reached a pretty dark place, as has pretty much every other character in this show (besides maybe Walt Jr).
I thought Anna Gunn summed it up the best on a recent podcast-- that at this point Skyler realizes she's already damned, so it doesn't much matter what they do anymore.
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Old September 2 2013, 07:29 PM   #289
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Walt fabricates the poorest lies I've ever heard. He knows people won't truly believe them, & he knows they'll know that about him. "He's telling lies he'll know I won't believe". He does it anyway, because by doing so, he looks sad, desperate, & weak, like a victim with no alternative but to conjure sad bullshit. It's his whole gambit, playing the schnuck. Walt is Keyser Soze. He'll stare you right in the face & you'll think how could anyone be so pitiful?
I thought some of this previous lies were rather good, but this one was just painfully bad and transparent-- which may have been intentional by the writers, to show that he's not as much on his game as he used to be.

Although I couldn't help but wonder why Walt went through so much trouble to come up with a ridiculous story anyway. It felt more like something he'd do in Season One, when he was much more concerned with hiding the truth from Skyler.

With Jesse and Hank bearing down on him, and the noose slowly tightening around his neck, it's a bit hard to believe he'd care so much about a gasoline-soaked carpet. Especially when, as we saw later, they've got more than enough money to stay elsewhere.
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Old September 2 2013, 07:37 PM   #290
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Also, was anybody else thinking that Walt would have been waiting for Jesse with one of those "radio signal trackers" that Saul mentioned in the previous episode, and would have immediately detected the wire that Jesse was wearing?

I'm kinda bummed the episode didn't go there, as it would have proved Jesse's point perfectly of just how much smarter Walt is than the rest of them.
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Old September 2 2013, 08:41 PM   #291
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Vince Gilligan is a writing genius! Putting an Enzyte commercial right before a Slim Jim commercial!
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Old September 2 2013, 08:46 PM   #292
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

davejames wrote: View Post
Also, was anybody else thinking that Walt would have been waiting for Jesse with one of those "radio signal trackers" that Saul mentioned in the previous episode, and would have immediately detected the wire that Jesse was wearing?

I'm kinda bummed the episode didn't go there, as it would have proved Jesse's point perfectly of just how much smarter Walt is than the rest of them.
He's smart but he's arrogant. I doubt he would suspect Jessie of actually betraying him to the police. He's convinced Jessie is a danger only because he could go off on a drug binge and lash out at Walter. He still thinks if he explains things to Jessie in just the right way Jessie will be fine

His lying is explained by his arrogance as well. He want's Skylar to believe the danger is all in the past. Coming home to a gasoline soaked carpet will only convince her otherwise so he came up with a lie that not even Walter Jr. believes. I think he expects his lies to be believed still though. And I think that is evidence of how arrogant he is, and of the fact that he has been hiding who he really is his whole life. People don't suddenly become capable of watching people die and then dissolving their bodies in acid. Walter was always a sociopath. He's been lying his whole life. What changed is people are now aware he's a sociopath.
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Old September 2 2013, 08:47 PM   #293
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I knew Walt was going to concoct the malfunctioning gas pump story just before he did.

His downfall with these made-up stories is that he has to explain them in such detail. It's what makes him such an obvious liar. A good lie is short and simple. The longer you spin out the tale, the more it's obvious you're trying to convince the listener that it's true, rather than take it as a given.
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Old September 2 2013, 09:42 PM   #294
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
What plan do you think Jesse came up with?

I believe he's going to tell Walt jr. about his dad because that would rock Heisenberg to the core.. with everything he did he always made sure that his family is safe and didn't know (Skylar just broke through the ruse).

Taking away Jr. in a kind of way could be devastating to Walter without having to fire any shots because his family is the only thing left he cares about.
Yes, I've been puzzling over this one too. But, does Jesse know that Skylar is complicit in the meth business? I don't think he is aware that she is, so that would make Skylar a more logical choice for Jesse to use to get to Walt than Walt Jr. Now, if Jesse knows that Skylar is involved, he might choose to make Jr. aware. But I just don't see this going in that direction. Also, Jesse told Hank about this plan so it has to involve getting the goods on Walt, not just alienating him from his family.

As for Walt's call to Todd; I think signs are that he is going to go after Jesse.

Jesse has emerged most recently as Walt's biggest problem. Walt thinks he has, for the time being, "neutralized" Hank with the confession. We are shown Jesse attempting to burn down Walt's house, then reneging on an agreement to meet Walt so that (in Walt's mind) can manipulate Jesse once again, and finally, Jesse refusing to be manipulated and making a credible threat against Hank. Then we see Walt make the call. It does not seem logical that this call has anything to do with Hank. If Walt knew about Jesse's involvement with Hank, it might be different -- might. But he doesn't.
davejames wrote: View Post
JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
That's what I meant to say. She's not fully on-board, but she's dealing with it as best as she can. I think the most telling part was the line "We've come this far... what's one more?" or something along those lines. Skyler has reached a pretty dark place, as has pretty much every other character in this show (besides maybe Walt Jr).
I thought Anna Gunn summed it up the best on a recent podcast-- that at this point Skyler realizes she's already damned, so it doesn't much matter what they do anymore.
That sounds fully on-board to me. Skylar and Walt finally have the exact same interest in this thing; to not get caught.

As for the comment about "Stockholm Syndrome". With respect to Skylar, I don't think it applies at all. I read that article and disagreed with the writer's overall premise -- that characters like Sky and Jesse were psychologically "imprisoned" by Walt and like POW's and hostages sometimes, have taken their captor's positions as their own.

Sky started "breaking bad" some time ago and at this point is completely bad. She succumbed to greed -- like many of us would have in the same situation. I don't think Skylar is as bad as Walt, but she ain't no saint either.
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Old September 2 2013, 09:43 PM   #295
davejames
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I knew Walt was going to concoct the malfunctioning gas pump story just before he did.

His downfall with these made-up stories is that he has to explain them in such detail. It's what makes him such an obvious liar. A good lie is short and simple. The longer you spin out the tale, the more it's obvious you're trying to convince the listener that it's true, rather than take it as a given.
Good point. All Walt really needed to say was that he spilled some gas on his clothes at the gas station, and it got into the carpet. End of story. No need for all the theatrics.
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Old September 2 2013, 10:01 PM   #296
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Skyler is certainly 'bad' now, but her main motivation has never been Walt's money. It's to keep her kids from growing up with the stigma of criminal parents.
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Old September 2 2013, 10:19 PM   #297
davejames
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

gblews wrote: View Post
Sky started "breaking bad" some time ago and at this point is completely bad. She succumbed to greed -- like many of us would have in the same situation. I don't think Skylar is as bad as Walt, but she ain't no saint either.
I don't know. I never got the sense that the money really mattered that much to Skyler. She gradually started helping out more and more with the business, but I think that was mainly just for the small thrill she got from doing something illegal, and because she wanted to ensure that Walt would actually get away with this thing he was doing (and look as clean as possible to the outside world).

I think Skyler's main goal through all of this was just to not destroy the family and prevent Junior from learning the truth (after her plan to divorce Walt and throw him out of the house failed so badly). At this point she's just going along with Walt's plan, it seems to me, because it's about the only course that's really left to them.
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Old September 2 2013, 10:42 PM   #298
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I think for Skylar it began with cooking Ted's books because she wanted to help out someone she had sympathy for (and maybe was attracted to him). We all make mistakes and i'm pretty sure some of us made also some illegal ones that we consider minor like fudging taxes and such but in the end they are still illegal and carry penalties if caught.

Now cooking a companies books is no shaving off a few hundred bucks off the IRS, this is something people go to prison for and Skylar made that decision all by herself because she thought that having a steady, well paying job in their circumstances (Walt assembling a huge medical bill with a comparable small income) would be better than no job so she "got over herself" in the same matter as Walt.. a small, seemingly innocent skip over the line with the full intention of going back once matters have settled down.

Both plans got shot when outside interference scrambled their plans (as it always happens) but instead of owning up and putting an end to it with all the consequences both have dug themselves ever deeper, admittedly Walt's path has been much darker and more violent.

Now with this episode she has crossed the final line by urging Walter to "deal" with the problem and we all knew what she really meant. It's been a while coming since Skylar fully embraced Walt's actions and has been actively helping him but this was the final straw, now her hands are truly dirty and she can't pretend to be a white collar criminal anymore.

This is why i love this show so much.. every action has consequences and you can't escape them.
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Old September 2 2013, 10:49 PM   #299
Galileo7
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
What plan do you think Jesse came up with?

I believe he's going to tell Walt jr. about his dad because that would rock Heisenberg to the core.. with everything he did he always made sure that his family is safe and didn't know (Skylar just broke through the ruse).

Taking away Jr. in a kind of way could be devastating to Walter without having to fire any shots because his family is the only thing left he cares about.

...
Agree.
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Old September 2 2013, 11:28 PM   #300
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Galileo7 wrote: View Post
FPAlpha wrote: View Post
What plan do you think Jesse came up with?

I believe he's going to tell Walt jr. about his dad because that would rock Heisenberg to the core.. with everything he did he always made sure that his family is safe and didn't know (Skylar just broke through the ruse).

Taking away Jr. in a kind of way could be devastating to Walter without having to fire any shots because his family is the only thing left he cares about.

...
Agree.
I think the clue is what Jesse said, "I'll get him at his other home." That means either the car wash, the school or the lab. I almost wonder if they will revisit Gus' laundry?
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