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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old August 30 2013, 05:58 PM   #76
BillJ
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

austen_pierce wrote: View Post

Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
But why would Picard mourn him? He didn't know Kirk any better than a random redshirt (Kirk is my favorite character). What confused me was that they didn't seem to give a shit that the Enterprise was destroyed.
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Old August 31 2013, 12:55 AM   #77
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

BillJ wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post

Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
But why would Picard mourn him? He didn't know Kirk any better than a random redshirt (Kirk is my favorite character). What confused me was that they didn't seem to give a shit that the Enterprise was destroyed.
Even if he hadn't recognized Kirk (which he did, by the way), I would have expected Picard to at least mention to his crew that he had help (he doesn't) from another Starfleet Captain. Add Kirk's legacy back in, and it's criminal.
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Old August 31 2013, 02:03 AM   #78
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

^ Absolutely. We might justify that he did mention Kirk to them off-screen (of course), but the way it plays in the movie its like he just buries Kirk and then forgets all about him. For the audience that's an unsatisfying end to one of Star Trek's legacy characters (in fact, Kirk's false 'death' aboard the Enterprise-B at the start of the movie has got more emotional resonance than his actual death!).
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Old August 31 2013, 09:14 AM   #79
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

BillJ wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post

Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
But why would Picard mourn him? He didn't know Kirk any better than a random redshirt (Kirk is my favorite character). What confused me was that they didn't seem to give a shit that the Enterprise was destroyed.
He had just lost his entire family in a house fire. Next to that, a legendary starship captain and a spaceship are nothing.
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Old September 1 2013, 08:48 PM   #80
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post

Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
But why would Picard mourn him? He didn't know Kirk any better than a random redshirt (Kirk is my favorite character). What confused me was that they didn't seem to give a shit that the Enterprise was destroyed.
He had just lost his entire family in a house fire. Next to that, a legendary starship captain and a spaceship are nothing.
Shouldn't having just lost his entire family made Picard MORE sensitive to those around him making the ultimate sacrifice?
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Old September 1 2013, 10:07 PM   #81
Hober Mallow
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
BillJ wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post

Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
But why would Picard mourn him? He didn't know Kirk any better than a random redshirt (Kirk is my favorite character). What confused me was that they didn't seem to give a shit that the Enterprise was destroyed.
Kirk's dead, the Enterprise itself is gone... and Picard and Riker crack a couple jokes. It's amazing.
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Old September 2 2013, 02:30 AM   #82
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
BillJ wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post

Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
But why would Picard mourn him? He didn't know Kirk any better than a random redshirt (Kirk is my favorite character). What confused me was that they didn't seem to give a shit that the Enterprise was destroyed.
Kirk's dead, the Enterprise itself is gone... and Picard and Riker crack a couple jokes. It's amazing.
There's a great joke in the ruined Enterprise-D bridge scene:
Riker: "I always thought I'd have a shot at this [captain's] chair" (or something like that)
Picard: <rips the Captain's chair out of the floor and hands it to Riker>
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Old September 2 2013, 03:35 AM   #83
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Shouldn't having just lost his entire family made Picard MORE sensitive to those around him making the ultimate sacrifice?
Picard's too much of a bad-ass for an emotional display like that except in private.
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Old September 2 2013, 07:57 AM   #84
Enterprise is Great
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
BillJ wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post

Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
But why would Picard mourn him? He didn't know Kirk any better than a random redshirt (Kirk is my favorite character). What confused me was that they didn't seem to give a shit that the Enterprise was destroyed.
Kirk's dead, the Enterprise itself is gone... and Picard and Riker crack a couple jokes. It's amazing.
Sounds like the end of a number of TOS episodes. Ofcourse that was the 60's and tv was different then.
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Old September 2 2013, 02:43 PM   #85
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Enterprise is Great wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Kirk deserved better. Yes, he dies alone, but there is zero sense of mourning. Just another day at the office for Picard.
BillJ wrote: View Post

But why would Picard mourn him? He didn't know Kirk any better than a random redshirt (Kirk is my favorite character). What confused me was that they didn't seem to give a shit that the Enterprise was destroyed.
Kirk's dead, the Enterprise itself is gone... and Picard and Riker crack a couple jokes. It's amazing.
Sounds like the end of a number of TOS episodes. Ofcourse that was the 60's and tv was different then.
At the end of Balance of Terror Kirk mourns with a junior female officer at the loss of her fiance, a junior weapons officer. Kirk had been in the process of marrying them when the episode began. I understand that this is an exception to the red-shirt rule, in which Kirk willl deliver a few testy lines "a member of my crew is dead!" before moving on, but it's worth noting in context of Picard 'thank you very much, moving on' attitude at the end of Generations.
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Old September 2 2013, 05:05 PM   #86
Hober Mallow
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Enterprise is Great wrote: View Post
Sounds like the end of a number of TOS episodes. Ofcourse that was the 60's and tv was different then.
The Enterprise was destroyed in several episodes of TOS?

60s TV or not, had the Enterprise, arguably the main character of TOS, been destroyed in an episode, it would have been a huge deal, not the "oh, well," it was at the end of "Generations."

Hell, the destruction of the refitted E in TSFS was a big deal. We got the emotional, "My God, Bones." In "Generations" we get a wink and a nod from Picard as he says, "I have a funny feeling if you've been good children this year, Santa's going to bring you a badass new Enterprise..."
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Old September 2 2013, 05:47 PM   #87
Dr. Sevrin
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

There was definitely some sort of curse with the even numbered films, and we only have to examine Star Trek II and Star Trek IV to prove it!

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
DeForest Kelley - Dead!
James Doohan - Dead!
Bibi Besch - Dead!
Merritt Butrick - Dead!
Paul Winfield - Dead!
Richardo Montalban - Dead!

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Jane Wyatt - Dead!
Mark Lenard - Dead!
Robert Ellenstein - Dead!
Brock Peters - Dead!

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Old September 3 2013, 08:57 PM   #88
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Hell, the destruction of the refitted E in TSFS was a big deal. We got the emotional, "My God, Bones."
That scene brought tears to my eyes.
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Old September 3 2013, 10:02 PM   #89
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
At the end of Balance of Terror Kirk mourns with a junior female officer at the loss of her fiance, a junior weapons officer. Kirk had been in the process of marrying them when the episode began. I understand that this is an exception to the red-shirt rule, in which Kirk willl deliver a few testy lines "a member of my crew is dead!" before moving on, but it's worth noting in context of Picard 'thank you very much, moving on' attitude at the end of Generations.
"Yes, the Enterprise just got destroyed under your command, Number One...and...oh, yeah...Captain Kirk's buried right over there under some rocks. Long story. Anyway. WHO WANTS NACHOS??"
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Old September 3 2013, 10:22 PM   #90
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Re: The curse of even Trek Films and the reboot - thought

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
At the end of Balance of Terror Kirk mourns with a junior female officer at the loss of her fiance, a junior weapons officer. Kirk had been in the process of marrying them when the episode began. I understand that this is an exception to the red-shirt rule, in which Kirk willl deliver a few testy lines "a member of my crew is dead!" before moving on, but it's worth noting in context of Picard 'thank you very much, moving on' attitude at the end of Generations.
Except Picard does morn Kirk. Deeply. It's one of the few good shots of the film.

There was no reason for him to mention the Nexus or Kirk or any of that. Kirk was best left remembered as the guy who died saving the successor to his legacy.
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