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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old September 2 2013, 11:52 AM   #616
Metryq
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Re: Ancient Aliens

RAMA wrote: View Post
Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
Just make sure our probes don't collide with anybody else's.


Not likely, if there's so much space between stars and objects that a galaxy collision won't produce collisions, I doubt a few trillion swarming bots will either.
From THE MAKING OF KUBRICK'S 2001 by Jerome Agel:

Thousands of color still photographs were taken in primordial-looking southwest Africa for use in M-G-M's Boreham Wood studio near London. (In the middle of Absolutely Nowhere, Africa, the 2001 car ran into an oncoming truck and two of the photographers were injured.)
People are often surprised to run into someone they know while visiting a distant city. The "coincidence" is really not all that surprising when one considers the tiny portion of the Earth's surface that is land. One can further reduce the "randomness" of the event because people move in fixed areas, like cities, and the people involved probably have common interests that narrow their movements, etc.

So while the universe is very large -- a star system is also very large -- the odds of two biosphere probes running into each other is thus reduced. Besides, Nomad did not collide with the alien probe. Nomad was damaged by a meteoroid and later found by the alien probe. Nomad was probably still within the system where it was damaged when the alien probe found it.
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Old June 5 2014, 04:17 AM   #617
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Metryq wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
Just make sure our probes don't collide with anybody else's.


Not likely, if there's so much space between stars and objects that a galaxy collision won't produce collisions, I doubt a few trillion swarming bots will either.
From THE MAKING OF KUBRICK'S 2001 by Jerome Agel:

Thousands of color still photographs were taken in primordial-looking southwest Africa for use in M-G-M's Boreham Wood studio near London. (In the middle of Absolutely Nowhere, Africa, the 2001 car ran into an oncoming truck and two of the photographers were injured.)
People are often surprised to run into someone they know while visiting a distant city. The "coincidence" is really not all that surprising when one considers the tiny portion of the Earth's surface that is land. One can further reduce the "randomness" of the event because people move in fixed areas, like cities, and the people involved probably have common interests that narrow their movements, etc.

So while the universe is very large -- a star system is also very large -- the odds of two biosphere probes running into each other is thus reduced. Besides, Nomad did not collide with the alien probe. Nomad was damaged by a meteoroid and later found by the alien probe. Nomad was probably still within the system where it was damaged when the alien probe found it.
I would really think I was crazy or being picked on by the universe if I ran into a truck in the middle of nowhere..but even that example doesn't take ito account the vastness of the galaxy. There's also no reason for anyone to make this a hub activity, there probably wouldn't be anything to make us stand out to increase the odds of occurrences.

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Old June 5 2014, 04:24 AM   #618
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
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As usual it DOES address the issue, you just have a narrow view of it.
Actually, I have a realistic view of it. A society with finite resources and a limited lifespan is not going to make an open-ended commitments to support an unproven technology on an untested concept whose prospects for success are entirely unknown and whose tangible benefits will never be returned to the people who actually built it. There is no PRACTICAL reason to attempt to colonize other galaxies -- or even other solar systems -- when you do not yet have the technology to explore your OWN solar system.

The fact that it's impractical doesn't mean the attempt will fail. Quite the opposite, in fact, if it was just a matter of technology it would be easy to conceive of a 100 year starship design that could succeed even using modern technology. On the contrary, the fact that it's an impractical endeavor means that no one who wields the resources to BUILD such a thing would have any logical reason to do so. Put simply: if you were the kind of altruistic dreamer who had a trillion dollars sitting in a bank account somewhere, there are a thousand more important things you would try to do with that money before "100 year starship" even came up in conversation.

The whole point of the lecture was that you very well CAN reach other galaxies in the same timeframe as this one...
In much the same way that you CAN stick your head up an elephant's ass and yell "Geronimo!" at the top of your lungs. Much harder to do is convincing anyone who matters that this is a productive use of one's time.

As for the discovery that aliens might have it easier in settling the galaxy
That's not a discovery, that's a hypothesis with no factual support whatsoever. The reason it's unrelated is because it still assumes the presence of an interstellar exploratory imperative that is not known to exist even in OUR OWN species. You might as well assume that intelligent species on other worlds will have lower population densities because they're more likely to practice cannibalism.
Ironically I just saw an article that basically supports my entire speculation on this subject which is why I was looking for the thread. Unfortunately it was days ago and have yet to find it again. Stay tuned.

In lieu of that, yet another of a numerous list of sites that support my position on the efficiency of this method which you erroneously disagreed with: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Self-...n-265189.shtml

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Old June 5 2014, 11:29 AM   #619
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Re: Ancient Aliens

RAMA wrote: View Post
Ironically I just saw an article that basically supports my entire speculation on this subject...
We keep going round and round on this one point that Crazy Eddie already nailed down on the first page of this thread when he said:

The producers aren't desperate to make a connection, they're just pandering to the kinds of people who already believe this anyway and are looking for something to reinforce their beliefs
One speculative article about interstellar colonization techniques or ancient aliens does not "support" or "prove" another. Evidence must be empirical. No amount of mathematical modeling can "prove" anything either, nor are models and speculations "statistics," such as Drake's equation.

Speculation is useful to science because it can suggest avenues for research. Mathematical models can be used to reduce complex problems to a manageable size—but don't confuse the math in technology/engineering (which is grounded in empirical data) with the mathematical models in science (venturing into the unknown).

As for self-replicating probes, I see that as a potential disaster waiting to happen. Suppose some of the "parts" the probe needs to make a copy of itself turn out to be a living creature? I read that the first computer virus was a self-replicating party invitation that eventually overwhelmed the system's resources (aka "The law of unintended consequences").
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Old June 5 2014, 06:29 PM   #620
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Re: Ancient Aliens

RAMA wrote: View Post
Ironically I just saw an article that basically supports my entire speculation on this subject which is why I was looking for the thread. Unfortunately it was days ago and have yet to find it again. Stay tuned.
Daily Mail

Each month a new planet is discovered that bears similarities to our own - and it is becoming increasingly apparent Earth is not unique.

So it stands to reason that of the billions of Earth-like planets in our galaxy alone, there might be another that hosts life.

It’s a thought that is gaining more credence all the time, and now Nasa has released a fascinating book detailing how, or if, we might communicate with some of these worlds.

Some of the most interesting chapters tackle the issue of alien communication in the past, present and future.

In one section, for example, William Edmondson from the University of Birmingham considers the possibility that rock art on Earth is of extraterrestrial origin.

‘We can say little, if anything, about what these patterns signify, why they were cut into rocks, or who created them,’ he writes.

‘For all intents and purposes, they might have been made by aliens.’


The book is titled Archaeology, Anthropology and Interstellar Communication.



The drawings in question:



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Old June 5 2014, 07:00 PM   #621
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Re: Ancient Aliens

They came hundreds of light years to paint graffiti.
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Old June 5 2014, 07:12 PM   #622
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Thanks for the link, Darth Tom. I will give the book a reading. A quick search found one passing mention of the Nazca lines in Peru where the author cautions against "believing is seeing."

Yet the article talks of "Earth-like" planets based on the sketchiest of information and attributes rock art to aliens. It didn't say "created by humans after ancient encounters with aliens." The quoted passage above says "the possibility that rock art on Earth is of extraterrestrial origin," meaning aliens made it.

Poor, stupid humans are incapable of anything, such as stylized art or building huge stone structures without powered equipment.

Bizarre petroglyphs with semi-human figures can be found all over Earth. Did the alleged aliens touch down everywhere to leave this art? Humans have amazing imaginations. Take a look at the "dreamtime" art of Australian aborigines. Does all art today represent only things from the real world?
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Old June 5 2014, 07:13 PM   #623
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Re: Ancient Aliens

sojourner wrote: View Post
They came hundreds of light years to paint graffiti.
With primitive tools, too.
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Old June 5 2014, 07:23 PM   #624
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Re: Ancient Aliens

sojourner wrote: View Post
They came hundreds of light years to paint graffiti.
Hey, don't shoot the messenger. And interestingly enough this is the first time to the best of my knowledge, that a reputable scientist from a prominent university actually forwards the ancient aliens notion and in fact to none other than NASA IN a 350 page report. [read the PDF in the article linked]
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Old June 5 2014, 08:04 PM   #625
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The key is the phrase "for all intents and purposes", what he is trying to say is that we have as little idea behind what those early humans were like as we do aliens from another planet. He's not saying that aliens created the art.

This is what happens when you read the Daily Fail. Wrong conclusions in the article and quotes taken out of context. The article tries to make it an ancient aliens connection. Not the book or scientist.
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Old June 16 2014, 11:30 AM   #626
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Re: Ancient Aliens

DarthTom wrote: View Post
The drawings in question:

If these were really ancient depictions, I'd wonder about the skirts the figures are apparently wearing.

OTOH, this is not the isolated and protected inside of a cave, so I'd presume that wind, sand and rain would have erased those paintings a longer time ago, i.e. this rather looks to me like recent Nigerian art.

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Old June 16 2014, 06:30 PM   #627
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Re: Ancient Aliens

sojourner wrote: View Post
The key is the phrase "for all intents and purposes", what he is trying to say is that we have as little idea behind what those early humans were like as we do aliens from another planet. He's not saying that aliens created the art.
Yeah, the notion that the writer is in any way suggesting or endorsing the notion that these things were created by aliens is an hysterical misreading of simple English.
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Old June 21 2014, 01:59 AM   #628
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Just finished watching When Aliens Attack on NatGeo. That was some stupid shit. They kept pointing to the Afghan rebels beating the Soviets but neglected that the U.S. was feeding them weapons.
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Old June 21 2014, 07:55 AM   #629
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The concept of ancient aliens as presented on the show is complete bullshit, but like werewolves and vampires, it makes for entertaining TV.
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