RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,668
Posts: 5,429,424
Members: 24,821
Currently online: 435
Newest member: SB118_Laxyn


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 1 2013, 04:18 AM   #31
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Christopher wrote: View Post
Okay, granted. But it's still disappointing that a character who was conceived as Asian ended up played by a white actor, something that happens far too often in Hollywood. Indeed, it happened twice where Brent Spiner was concerned, since the original conception for Data was to have him look like an Asian or Pacific Islander.
And Yar was originally concieved a Latino character based off of a similar character in Aliens who was played a Jew, you're reaching to make a point. And did these revelations destroy your enjoyment of Data or Brothers either for that matter?
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2013, 12:48 PM   #32
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

The underlying issue is a valid point - about as blatant as having the heroes encounter a starship with the name Nostromo very visibly stenciled on the bows in Latin alphabet, beaming aboard, and being surprised that it's crewed by humans.

As a way of rationalization, we could assume everybody already suspected Data was a Soong creation. But since Soong had disappeared in disgrace, he couldn't be interviewed on the issue - and suggesting such parentage might actually have been considered embarrassing for the poor android.

Did Starfleet know Data was positronic, though? He seems willing enough to open up (quite literally!) to certain types of investigators, but had he actually done that before "Datalore"?

Giving an android the face of Soong would probably be a popular thing anyway. Much like giving an android today the face of Einstein or Gibson (Mel or William, depending).

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2013, 02:01 PM   #33
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Timo wrote: View Post
The underlying issue is a valid point - about as blatant as having the heroes encounter a starship with the name Nostromo very visibly stenciled on the bows in Latin alphabet, beaming aboard, and being surprised that it's crewed by humans.
Or meeting Apollo in space or an old earth ship holding some 72 genetically engineered criminals from the late 20th century or meeting a race of dinosaurs from earth on the other side of the galaxy.

As a way of rationalization, we could assume everybody already suspected Data was a Soong creation. But since Soong had disappeared in disgrace, he couldn't be interviewed on the issue - and suggesting such parentage might actually have been considered embarrassing for the poor android.

Did Starfleet know Data was positronic, though? He seems willing enough to open up (quite literally!) to certain types of investigators, but had he actually done that before "Datalore"?

Giving an android the face of Soong would probably be a popular thing anyway. Much like giving an android today the face of Einstein or Gibson (Mel or William, depending).

Timo Saloniemi
Data had been active for more than a quarter century by the time of Datalore, I'm sure Starfleet knew alot about Data, they just couldn't reproduce him.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2013, 05:26 PM   #34
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Christopher wrote: View Post
Okay, granted. But it's still disappointing that a character who was conceived as Asian ended up played by a white actor, something that happens far too often in Hollywood. Indeed, it happened twice where Brent Spiner was concerned, since the original conception for Data was to have him look like an Asian or Pacific Islander.
Because of the massive amount of old age makeup on Spiner for the Soong role, I didn't even realize until "Birthright" that Data was supposed to resemble a young Soong.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2013, 06:48 PM   #35
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Or meeting Apollo in space or an old earth ship holding some 72 genetically engineered criminals from the late 20th century or meeting a race of dinosaurs from earth on the other side of the galaxy.
Umm, what?

Our heroes never were illogically surprised by these events. They did not fail to take note of early signs blatantly indicating what was to come. So these incidents have nothing in common with either the example I gave, or the case of Starfleet failing to note that Data looks like Soong.

Data had been active for more than a quarter century by the time of Datalore, I'm sure Starfleet knew alot about Data
Well, Spock had been in Starfleet for a long time before we learned his fellow Starfleet officers knew next to nothing about Vulcans - no idea of mind melds, of pon farr, of the seven-year mate-finding cycle, or that Ambassador Sarek is Spock's father (and the father of Spock's half-brother)! Perhaps Starfleet knew about those things, but chose not to tell Kirk, McCoy or other Enterprise officers for reason X... And perhaps Data was kept as an enigma for the same reason X. But that sounds like a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2013, 08:57 PM   #36
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

Timo wrote: View Post
Or meeting Apollo in space or an old earth ship holding some 72 genetically engineered criminals from the late 20th century or meeting a race of dinosaurs from earth on the other side of the galaxy.
Umm, what?

Our heroes never were illogically surprised by these events. They did not fail to take note of early signs blatantly indicating what was to come. So these incidents have nothing in common with either the example I gave, or the case of Starfleet failing to note that Data looks like Soong.

Data had been active for more than a quarter century by the time of Datalore, I'm sure Starfleet knew alot about Data
Well, Spock had been in Starfleet for a long time before we learned his fellow Starfleet officers knew next to nothing about Vulcans - no idea of mind melds, of pon farr, of the seven-year mate-finding cycle, or that Ambassador Sarek is Spock's father (and the father of Spock's half-brother)! Perhaps Starfleet knew about those things, but chose not to tell Kirk, McCoy or other Enterprise officers for reason X... And perhaps Data was kept as an enigma for the same reason X. But that sounds like a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

Timo Saloniemi
Who said that Starfleet was surprised that Data looked liked Soong? Soong's appearance is on record so I cna't imagine why Starfleet might be surprised by how much Data looked like Soong. And as for the rest if the writers and prodicers don't know it, the audience won't know about it either nor will the other characters.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:49 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.