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Old August 30 2013, 09:35 PM   #16
SchwEnt
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

I agree with most of the comments above. I'll add a bit of my own thinking...

In theory, ENT should have been more closely akin to TOS than the other ST series. Many TOS fans have been fans for decades. I think (without much established canon) fans had years to form their own pre-conceived notions of what pre-TOS is/should be like. ENT didn't always fit what had become semi-canon from fandom.

And yes, much of ENT seemed like a rehash of the usual Berman-era ST re-dressed in new trappings. Much of ENT could have easily passed as, say, any VOY eps rather than being something new and unique to ST.

Wasn't so much bad as it was just more of the same old, same old.

ENT missed a great opportunity to do ST that hadn't been done before, establish new canon history and create new ST mythos.
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Old August 30 2013, 10:01 PM   #17
Frontier
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
While there are some that did rather vocally criticize the show for not being enough of a TOS prequel to their liking (they had their own idea of what the 22nd-Century should be like)
Once Enterprise was done, I had a few ideas on how things should have been.,.

Set the show in 2166 (homage to 1966 Trek's founding) 5 years since the UFP has been founded. The crew would be all humans at first; perhaps an Andorian or a Tellarite, but no Vulcan. Really diversify them amongst the races/continents of the world. Someone from Africa, an Australian (the lone hold outs to the world government of 2151), a European other than from UK (German, maybe?) a South American, an Asian, Hispanic. I'm sure there's no way they'd have done anything but a white male american captain, but it would have been nice...

Make everything bulkier - and have the reason be that all the tech has to be "rugged-ized" like; surrounded by lead armor between the outer-casing and the internal circuits, in order to shield it from all the unknown potential radiations in space. This would explain why stuff was bulky still in TOS and also make it look right for pre-TOS.

Have the transporter really be something... scary. A transporter chamber rather than a room, with the controls behind a huge thick glass blast barrier. Only one emitter/pattern tracker so if you ever had to beam up two things at once it would risk combining them. Have the process actually take a while - 15+ seconds, during which a lot could go wrong. And have stuff go wrong with it. Lose people (redshirts) when you beam them up in an emergency. Illnesses like transporter psychosis or something else. Beaming people up w/out their clothes, or with a broken bone, or with energy burns cause by the damn thing. Make the transporter a true last resort and a scary option.

If not based on a Daedalus, then at least have the forward hull a sphere - not a saucer - to make sense of the Daedalus and be a proto-trek design.

Have the shields be like an actual flat shield (force field) projected rather than an all encompassing bubble. Laser pistols that can also fire projectiles (because energy weapons are so new) and... you see the direction I'm going.

Ah well.
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Old August 30 2013, 10:07 PM   #18
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

I really had a lot of trouble with the NX transporter, as sticking it in an alcove off a main corridor seemed odd. Later transporters required an entire room. It didn't make sense to me that an earlier version of the device was so compact.
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Old August 30 2013, 10:16 PM   #19
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Frontier, that's brilliant, and quite in line with where I thought they should have gone with it too.
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Old August 31 2013, 03:46 AM   #20
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

I remember at the time being excited about the new Trek series when it was first announced, but from then on everything I heard about the series was disappointing.

The designs of the ship were hinted towards being something new: Ended up being a slight tweak of a ship we'd already seen.
(Cynical decision because the suits knew the Akira was a fan favourite ship ever since it appeared in First Contact)

The Uniforms looked like the crew were working in a warehouse not exploring a new frontier.

The Vulcans were there but they were written as jerks, like overbearing parents whose only purpose was to give the human characters cliched rebellious scenes.

Klingons arrived but far too early and in a non interesting way.

Temporal cold war was inserted because the network had no faith a true prequel show (even just a TNG-era show dressed up in Prequel clothing as Enterprise seemed to be) wouldn't hold the casual fans attention so them ham fistedly inserted a futuristic plot that even they admit now they had no idea what to do with and no plans for it actually to go anywhere.

And yeah, the lack of "The" when talking about the ship irked me a LOT. In all of Star Trek it had been referred to as THE Enterprise. And in this series more than ever it should've been the same since there'd been no other Enterprises and no prospect of there being any more either so for all intents and purposes, this could've been THE only Enterprise.
Every time they said "I've got to get back to Enterprise..." I was mumbling "THE Enterprise!!!" under my breath

Bakula, too, was a poor choice of captain.
When I heard he was picked I thought, good, they've got a name and I had good memories of watching Quantum Leap as a child.
But he seemed to have a permanent disgusted scowl on his face the entire time, even during lighter episodes.
His two acting modes seemed to be disgruntled and angry shouting with nothing else going on.
And any comedy scenes were beyond cringeworthy.
Yay..your dog likes cheese...big whoop.

I think the whole concept underachieved, even more than Voyager did when it abandoned most of its "one shop struggling alone with a divided crew" premise after about its sixth episode.

It's nadir was the Borg episode.
I don't think anyone, hardcore fan or casual, when they heard of a new Star Trek series set pre-kirk, was thinking "oooh, I hope the Borg show up at some point!"
It was clear then no-one really wanted to write a prequel series at this point, having done episodes about Klingons, Ferengi, Nausicaans and then the Bloody Borg.

So yeah, Enterprise ended up being the Trek series that arrived when the entire franchise had run out of steam, the producers were just phoning it in and everyone had seemingly lost interest.
But, it made money for the network so I guess that's all anyone ever cared about really.
Artistic integrity be damned!
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Old August 31 2013, 04:02 AM   #21
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

I no longer consider myself a hater because I liked season 3-4 when I finally watched it.

But the reason most people don't care for Enterprise is that the first two seasons just have really, really terrible writing. Simple as that.
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Old August 31 2013, 04:13 AM   #22
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
. . .But, it made money for the network so I guess that's all anyone ever cared about really. . .
And in a final irony, or a case of biting the hand that feeds it, said network collapsed one year after cancellation.
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Last edited by Melakon; August 31 2013 at 04:16 AM. Reason: math was never my best subject
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Old August 31 2013, 05:43 AM   #23
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Melakon wrote: View Post
Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
. . .But, it made money for the network so I guess that's all anyone ever cared about really. . .
And in a final irony, or a case of biting the hand that feeds it, said network collapsed one year after cancellation.
Yeah but UPN was on the verge of that going back to Voyager's 6th and 7th seasons. They just didn't have the right strategy, programming, consistency, or access. Enterprise was sort of the life-point, hope against hope it would boost them, and when it didn't... they sunk with it.
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Old August 31 2013, 05:49 AM   #24
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Praetor wrote: View Post
Frontier, that's brilliant, and quite in line with where I thought they should have gone with it too.
Yeah. I've often thought of writing out a fan-fic "pilot" about how it would have been/should have been, but, I'm apathetic and lazy.

I certainly wouldn't have done the ship as Enterprise, though. The name I settled on was U.S.S. Pioneer, with a registry something like NCC-170. And so then, their main shuttle craft could be Shuttle 1, and so like in TOS, it would read NCC-170/1.
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Old August 31 2013, 08:34 PM   #25
Gojira
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Too many shite, recycled and bland epsodes in seasons one and two. That's why Enterprise failed. Had they begun with the energy and direction of season 3, I think things would have been very different.

Take a look at the Abrams' movies to see that Trek can be HUGE while merrily tweaking continuity left and right. There will always be the OCD crowd who will scream and rant - that the Klingons were wrong, the insignia was wrong, the terminology was wrong, how dare it contradict the novels and technical manuals, how dare they change date X to suit their story etc etc - but the vast majority will be along for the ride if they enjoy it.
Once again, King Daniel speaks the truth.

I just didn't find the episodes in the first couple of seasons exciting. I didn't like making the Vulcans so adversarial and confrontational. They all seemed angry.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:05 PM   #26
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

I think Enterprise is the one series that should have never made it to air.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:09 PM   #27
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
I think Enterpriseis the one series that should have never made it to air.
Agreed. I know I would have liked a series set after Voyager.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:12 PM   #28
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

I really wanted the show to succeed, but I didn't care for any of the initial episodes until "Civilization", as it felt closest in spirit to TOS. Unfortunately, that episode is not a fan favorite. There often seemed to be a tendency to concentrate on building the characters through scenes that sometimes had nothing to do with an episode's story. The uniforms looked like they were bought off the rack at a custodial supply company.
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Old September 1 2013, 01:07 AM   #29
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

Didn't like the whole Suliban/Temporal Cold War/Delphic Expanse arc, there were a few good episodes but as a whole just never really went anywhere. Introduction of species again like the Suliban, Ferengi, Borg etc. was just rehashed none sense.

It should have fitted with what we DO know about the alpha quadrant not just create a whole new idea. Could have used more Tholian/Gorn/Breen story lines. Should have been about gaining allies to help with the Romulan war. Introduction of Klingons later in the series, the odd skirmish with a bird of prey that almost cost them their lives (Kobyashi Maru style)

Never really improved for me, until the last episode where it just seemed like the whole thing was just Riker's fantasy holo deck program

One thing I did like was the use of Zefram Cochrane (James Cromwell). That's about it... Unfortunately.
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Old September 1 2013, 02:29 AM   #30
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Re: Theory About Why Most Don't Care for Enterprise as Much...

There were a few problems with Enterprise:
-The UPN executives made a bunch of bad moves that alienated the fans and compromised the show: the Akiraprise, mandating the Temporal Cold War so the show was both a prequel and sequel, keeping the tech mostly the same, etc...
-A tapped out writing staff who weren't writing the stories they wanted to write and were forced to keep the TNG formula.
-Berman staying and refusing to shake up the directing and soundtracks, which made the shows seem even blander than their scripts did.
-Fans being burnt out after a decade of Trek shows and what was perceived to be declining quality.

If Enterprise had been something special or at least gave the audience the impression that they were trying to make a great program, people might've given the show the benefit of the doubt in those first two seasons. Sadly, things didn't work out that way and the franchise wound up languishing for a while.
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