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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 28 2013, 10:19 PM   #16
M'Sharak
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Re: Transporters too Good

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Could the HUP be used as an excuse for why Starfleet doesn't use the transwarp beaming regularly? I admit I know very little about that stuff, but I'm sure they could have Scotty throw in some unobtrusive exposition (a simple line or two) in the next film about how the Heisenberg Compensators lack the sophistication to transwarp beam within acceptable safety levels or something like that.
Not so sure it would make the best excuse. The Uncertainty Principle applies on a quantum level, and the Heisenberg compensators were supposed to be a <magic tech> means of working around a "position and momentum of particle A may not both be measurable without interfering with position/movement of particle A and thus rendering the measurement invalid" sort of problem. How that might be affected by transport distance I couldn't guess, but I'm thinking not very much.

Something closer to an "annular confinement beam" type of <magic tech> might be a better bet.
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Old August 29 2013, 02:28 AM   #17
Set Harth
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Re: Transporters too Good

Timo wrote: View Post
Or then Scotty only made the devices a tad less lethal, but that was enough for Spock Prime's purposes of stopping Nero; Spock wouldn't have worried all that much about the personal safety of Kirk at that point.
Aren't those concerns pretty much one and the same, though? If Kirk turns into a pile of goo or gets transported into a bulkhead, he isn't going to be doing any Nero-stopping. And Spock Prime did seem concerned with nuverse-Kirk's destiny.
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Old August 29 2013, 04:22 AM   #18
SeerSGB
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Re: Transporters too Good

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Or then Scotty only made the devices a tad less lethal, but that was enough for Spock Prime's purposes of stopping Nero; Spock wouldn't have worried all that much about the personal safety of Kirk at that point.
Aren't those concerns pretty much one and the same, though? If Kirk turns into a pile of goo or gets transported into a bulkhead, he isn't going to be doing any Nero-stopping. And Spock Prime did seem concerned with nuverse-Kirk's destiny.
Risk versus gain: One transport might not be lethal or even that risky; but repeated use might stack the damage or increase your risks of something going wrong.
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Old August 29 2013, 06:08 PM   #19
Nine of Four
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Re: Transporters too Good

If Starfleet had access to transwarp beaming, it might be stolen, (or assimilated ) by the Borg/Klingons/Romulans/Dominion/Cardassians.

Risk to great.
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Old August 29 2013, 06:31 PM   #20
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Transporters too Good

The Dominion already had similar long range transporters - weirdly they only used it for dramatic Vorta escapes and not to, say, beam an armed torpedo into the Federation President's office.
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Old August 29 2013, 06:57 PM   #21
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Re: Transporters too Good

Nine of Four wrote: View Post
The events in these movies occurred before those of The Original Series TV show, yet the transporter technology far outmatched that of any series.
Alternate reality. Not everything is going to be as the regular timeline.
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Old August 29 2013, 08:07 PM   #22
Set Harth
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Re: Transporters too Good

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
and not to, say, beam an armed torpedo into the Federation President's office.
Nobody ever does this, when they have the technology. It doesn't make sense. AbramsTrek is in this boat now.
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Old August 29 2013, 08:53 PM   #23
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Re: Transporters too Good

The Dominion already had similar long range transporters - weirdly they only used it for dramatic Vorta escapes and not to, say, beam an armed torpedo into the Federation President's office.
Well, there was no episode that would actually have presented evidence of a Dominion long range transporter existing - but somehow Worf had become convinced that such a device did exist, and could explain Kira's kidnapping, in "Covenant". I wonder what the Dominion did with such a transporter to make Worf so convinced?

The escape of the Vorta in "Jem'Hadar" could be explained without long range transporters: simple standard transporter, coupled with a cloaked ship, would be plenty enough. And Kira's kidnapping was never thoroughly analyzed, only speculated upon; a standard transporter could have snatched her off the station to a waiting ship, say.

Risk versus gain: One transport might not be lethal or even that risky; but repeated use might stack the damage or increase your risks of something going wrong.
Exactly. That was explicitly the thing that had stopped the UFP from using the "High Ground" space-folding trick (it worked fine, until you died). The "Bloodlines" subspace transporter was said to be unstable and an energy hog. And the sub-quantum teleportation in "Daedalus" was apparently too dangerous to be even tried out. Scotty's invention could be similar to one of the three, or then something else altogether.

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Old August 30 2013, 10:03 AM   #24
ROBE
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Re: Transporters too Good

I suppose they could claim long term use could lead to damage to humanoids and there is a 10% risk of accident (Scotty being stuck in tube).
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Old August 30 2013, 03:00 PM   #25
AUbricklogic
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Re: Transporters too Good

They honestly need to make the technology of the future seem risky and finicky again or they're going to shoot themselves in the foot over and over. Problematic technology is used as the device in the story for why they don't just "beam up" out of danger or other "easy-fixes" to the various troubles they face.
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Old August 30 2013, 03:50 PM   #26
austen_pierce
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Re: Transporters too Good

Forgetting transwarp for a moment, transporters just don't malfunction like they did in TOS. On the other hand. Enterprise (Archer and company) beat this to death,; Abrams has better things to focus on.
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Old August 30 2013, 03:59 PM   #27
Jeyl
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Re: Transporters too Good

How does one confiscate an equation? I mean, Scotty was able to make it work on the JJPrise's transporters in the last movie by beaming Kirk and Spock onboard the Narada from Titan, so why couldn't he just use it again?
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Old August 30 2013, 04:02 PM   #28
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Transporters too Good

Why do they need starships when they have transporters that can beam them across sectors?
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Old August 30 2013, 04:42 PM   #29
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Re: Transporters too Good

General logistics, I guess. In terms of personal armaments, Khan was rather well equipped even in his Qo'noS exile, but he didn't have a means of transportation or a sensor array with him.

What you would do with a super-transporter would thus be beaming starships across sectors. That is, vessels with warp engines replaced by super-transporters, but the other elements such as big guns, laboratories, holodecks and cargo holds still remaining.

This also relates to the Scotty-still-has-the-skills issue. What would our heroes do with a super-transporter? We've seen they have big trouble locking on to a target even with their regular ones (cf. the conclusion of the movie), so they couldn't use the transwarp transporter to imprison John Harrison. They could use it to go after him in force, but how much force could they pack on their belts and packpacks alone? Sending a starship would seem to be their only option of either delivering decisive firepower (as Marcus wanted) or snatching back Harrison.

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Old August 30 2013, 04:43 PM   #30
SeerSGB
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Re: Transporters too Good

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Why do they need starships when they have transporters that can beam them across sectors?
Risk. Who knows how damn finicky or dangerous the thing is normally. We never saw it used in a normal situation: Kirk and Scotty was a last ditch desperation move; Khan was a nutjob super genius.
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