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Old August 29 2013, 01:20 PM   #16
GameOn
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Re: Warp 10

Brannon Braga also wrote the TNG episode "Genesis" which completely butchered evolution. Lets just pretend that Threshold never happened.
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Old August 29 2013, 01:26 PM   #17
teacock
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Re: Warp 10

But if it never happened there are no abandoned babies to return in JJTrek's ultimate prodigal parent movie!

Heck, it happened to Kirk, it can happen to Janeway.
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Old August 29 2013, 01:51 PM   #18
Stoo
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Re: Warp 10

Okay so you can't do Warp 10 (which I understand as, Infinite Speed?) or everyone turns into newts and has newt sex. So why not do, like, warp 9.999999995? And get home in 38 minutes instead of instantly. At what point does newtification set in?
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Old August 29 2013, 02:05 PM   #19
F. King Daniel
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Re: Warp 10

Lighthammer wrote: View Post
What always drove me nuts about this episode is it was previously established going faster then Warp 10 was viable in overload conditions (See Star Trek 1) and reinforced else where.

The theory-held that Transwarp was simply pushing off another form of substance gradients that essentially allowed for more efficient and thus potentially faster warp speeds.

The theory, as I understood it, up until "Threshold" (S02E15) was going beyond Warp 100 is what gave you crazy effects as seen in "Where No One Has Gone Before" (TNG S1E06).

Voyager's whole Warp 10 ordeal kind of just shattered a whole bunch of heavily implied in show references and a whole bunch of written reference material over the course of the few seconds they broke warp 10 and things kind of "exploded".

I have to admit, I have a big grudge against Brannon Braga (writer of this episode) for basically throwing a whole bunch of martial out the window, not even referencing any scientific material on the topic an coming up with something that REALLY makes no sense.
Wait a sec - Braga got the warp 10 = infinite velocity thing (as dumb and contradictory as it is) from the warp speed charts in Mike Okuda's TNG Technical Manual and Star Trek Encyclopedia - the very same ones you were saying should be 100% canon in the "Intrepid vs. Galaxy class" thread.
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Old August 29 2013, 04:37 PM   #20
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Warp 10

teacake wrote: View Post
Would YOU volunteer to be turned into a lizard and then have a hologram reverse you?

I'd rather stay in the DQ.
If it meant getting home, avoiding Borg space (and Seven of Nine), and giving the eggheads back at the Starfleet a means of developing warp 10 technology whilst also looking for ways to safeguard the crew for the ill effects which would open up not just our galaxy but millions of others to peaceful exploration, then yes, yes I would.

Whilst personally I dislike the idea of being treated by a simple tool (which holograms are), it doesn't bother most of the crew when they suffer more serious injuries and illnesses. Besides, you'd be back at Earth and a proper doctor can use the EMHs notes and treat you instead.
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Old August 29 2013, 04:53 PM   #21
KaraBear
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Re: Warp 10

they couldn't use it to get home because they didn't know how to come out at a specific point. tom just took a chance and shut down the engine and ended up back where he started.
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Old August 29 2013, 07:00 PM   #22
Lighthammer
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Re: Warp 10

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Lighthammer wrote: View Post
What always drove me nuts about this episode is it was previously established going faster then Warp 10 was viable in overload conditions (See Star Trek 1) and reinforced else where.

The theory-held that Transwarp was simply pushing off another form of substance gradients that essentially allowed for more efficient and thus potentially faster warp speeds.

The theory, as I understood it, up until "Threshold" (S02E15) was going beyond Warp 100 is what gave you crazy effects as seen in "Where No One Has Gone Before" (TNG S1E06).

Voyager's whole Warp 10 ordeal kind of just shattered a whole bunch of heavily implied in show references and a whole bunch of written reference material over the course of the few seconds they broke warp 10 and things kind of "exploded".

I have to admit, I have a big grudge against Brannon Braga (writer of this episode) for basically throwing a whole bunch of martial out the window, not even referencing any scientific material on the topic an coming up with something that REALLY makes no sense.
Wait a sec - Braga got the warp 10 = infinite velocity thing (as dumb and contradictory as it is) from the warp speed charts in Mike Okuda's TNG Technical Manual and Star Trek Encyclopedia - the very same ones you were saying should be 100% canon in the "Intrepid vs. Galaxy class" thread.
I'll have to go back and look when I have some time, I remember the scale being Warp 100 as infinite.

If thats the case, I guess I kind of loss a lot of ground in being annoyed by this episode.
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Old August 29 2013, 08:19 PM   #23
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Re: Warp 10

GameOn wrote: View Post
Brannon Braga also wrote the TNG episode "Genesis" which completely butchered evolution. Lets just pretend that Threshold never happened.
I actually really like that episode

I think Braga gets a bad wrap, he wrote over 100 episodes between TNG and Voyager, many of them quite good. But people only give him a hard time for one or two that weren't that great
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Old August 29 2013, 08:27 PM   #24
R. Star
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Re: Warp 10

KaraBear wrote: View Post
GameOn wrote: View Post
Brannon Braga also wrote the TNG episode "Genesis" which completely butchered evolution. Lets just pretend that Threshold never happened.
I actually really like that episode

I think Braga gets a bad wrap, he wrote over 100 episodes between TNG and Voyager, many of them quite good. But people only give him a hard time for one or two that weren't that great
Braga's at his best when he's doing alternate reality or something to that effect. His best days were in TNG easily. Voyager and Enterprise(especially)... no. I think by that time he was just cranking out as many as he could with less regard to quality. But like they say in poker... you can hardly recall the winning streaks but remember every big loss. Braga's like that and he's really hit and miss. But it's definitely more than "one or two."
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Old August 29 2013, 08:35 PM   #25
KaraBear
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Re: Warp 10

R. Star wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
GameOn wrote: View Post
Brannon Braga also wrote the TNG episode "Genesis" which completely butchered evolution. Lets just pretend that Threshold never happened.
I actually really like that episode

I think Braga gets a bad wrap, he wrote over 100 episodes between TNG and Voyager, many of them quite good. But people only give him a hard time for one or two that weren't that great
Braga's at his best when he's doing alternate reality or something to that effect. His best days were in TNG easily. Voyager and Enterprise(especially)... no. I think by that time he was just cranking out as many as he could with less regard to quality. But like they say in poker... you can hardly recall the winning streaks but remember every big loss. Braga's like that and he's really hit and miss. But it's definitely more than "one or two."
I think he had some great work on Voyager too.
to name a few
Scorpion
Year of Hell
The Killing Game
Living Whitness
Drone
Latent Image
Dark Frontier
Warhead
Life Line
Unimatrix Zero
Human Error
Author Author
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Old August 29 2013, 08:48 PM   #26
R. Star
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Re: Warp 10

KaraBear wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post

I actually really like that episode

I think Braga gets a bad wrap, he wrote over 100 episodes between TNG and Voyager, many of them quite good. But people only give him a hard time for one or two that weren't that great
Braga's at his best when he's doing alternate reality or something to that effect. His best days were in TNG easily. Voyager and Enterprise(especially)... no. I think by that time he was just cranking out as many as he could with less regard to quality. But like they say in poker... you can hardly recall the winning streaks but remember every big loss. Braga's like that and he's really hit and miss. But it's definitely more than "one or two."
I think he had some great work on Voyager too.
to name a few
Scorpion
Year of Hell
The Killing Game
Living Whitness
Drone
Latent Image
Dark Frontier
Warhead
Life Line
Unimatrix Zero
Human Error
Author Author
I'd contest a couple of those. Unimatrix Zero for example. But he also had a lot of clunkers on Voyager too...

Parallax
The Cloud
Emanations
Cathexis
The 37's
Cold Fire
Threshold(!)
Remember
Macrocosm
11:59
Memorial
Fury(!)
Endgame(!)

As I said, he's rather hit and miss. Mostly I think he gets most of his bad rap from his work on Enterprise, which you didn't even mention so perhaps you're conceding that one.
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Old August 29 2013, 08:59 PM   #27
KaraBear
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Re: Warp 10

R. Star wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

Braga's at his best when he's doing alternate reality or something to that effect. His best days were in TNG easily. Voyager and Enterprise(especially)... no. I think by that time he was just cranking out as many as he could with less regard to quality. But like they say in poker... you can hardly recall the winning streaks but remember every big loss. Braga's like that and he's really hit and miss. But it's definitely more than "one or two."
I think he had some great work on Voyager too.
to name a few
Scorpion
Year of Hell
The Killing Game
Living Whitness
Drone
Latent Image
Dark Frontier
Warhead
Life Line
Unimatrix Zero
Human Error
Author Author
I'd contest a couple of those. Unimatrix Zero for example. But he also had a lot of clunkers on Voyager too...

Parallax
The Cloud
Emanations
Cathexis
The 37's
Cold Fire
Threshold(!)
Remember
Macrocosm
11:59
Memorial
Fury(!)
Endgame(!)

As I said, he's rather hit and miss. Mostly I think he gets most of his bad rap from his work on Enterprise, which you didn't even mention so perhaps you're conceding that one.
I'd argue a few of those

and yea, not even going to argue Enterprise. I couldn't get past the first season despite several attempts
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Old August 29 2013, 09:18 PM   #28
Rusty Nova
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Re: Warp 10

delta quadrant warp 10 is different from alpha quadrant warp 10, due to high levels of frackalohedric particles in the area that cause mental binding on the subspace astral plane.
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Old August 30 2013, 12:53 AM   #29
Lighthammer
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Re: Warp 10

KaraBear wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post

I actually really like that episode

I think Braga gets a bad wrap, he wrote over 100 episodes between TNG and Voyager, many of them quite good. But people only give him a hard time for one or two that weren't that great
Braga's at his best when he's doing alternate reality or something to that effect. His best days were in TNG easily. Voyager and Enterprise(especially)... no. I think by that time he was just cranking out as many as he could with less regard to quality. But like they say in poker... you can hardly recall the winning streaks but remember every big loss. Braga's like that and he's really hit and miss. But it's definitely more than "one or two."
I think he had some great work on Voyager too.
to name a few
Scorpion
Year of Hell
The Killing Game
Living Whitness
Drone
Latent Image
Dark Frontier
Warhead
Life Line
Unimatrix Zero
Human Error
Author Author
I almost feel obligated to point out Living Witness was nominated for an Emmy. That requires huge recognition.
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Old August 30 2013, 12:59 AM   #30
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Warp 10

Because it was a terrible episode that they didn't think through at all.

After Where No Man Has Gone Before warp was always scaled up toward warp 10 as if it was an unbreakable barrier, and technical manuals released well before Threshold said warp 10 was infinite speed. The problem with the episode is more that it's total garbage than it's use of warp 10 as a hard barrier.
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