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Old August 29 2013, 02:24 PM   #211
Bad Thoughts
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Stoo wrote: View Post
Also, isn't 7 years just an awfully long time to be at the most junior rank? I would have thought just standard competent service would mean a promotion by then.
Harry's bitterness about being stuck as an ensign was the only development the character underwent in 7 years. Don't take that from him!
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Old August 29 2013, 02:54 PM   #212
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

If they never got home there would be NO ONE to promote Janeway. But did you hear her whining about this possibility? No.
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Old August 29 2013, 03:22 PM   #213
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Stoo wrote: View Post
Also, isn't 7 years just an awfully long time to be at the most junior rank? I would have thought just standard competent service would mean a promotion by then.
Well some of the main cast had nowhere to be promoted to. Or didn't have a rank. Tuvok did get a promotion, at least.
I think you answered your own question pretty much. For a ship with only 150 people it was way officer heavy anyways. Had Voyager had something more of a resolution beyond "they're home, fade to black" it's something we might have seen once they got back to Earth. But let's face it, above and beyond to earn one despite there being no need for a higher rank? If he was doing his job as the "ship's smart person" like Data at Ops in TNG... there would've been no need to bring in Seven later on.

You could argue Tores earned herself a promotion. Paris screwed up and went temporarily backwards.
Yeah... a person with violent rage issues, who's struck her co-workers, gone behind Janeway's orders and was once suicidally depressed is a great candidate for promotion.
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Old August 29 2013, 04:31 PM   #214
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Isn't trek always officer-heavy? I think O'brien is the only NCO in the fleet...

By "nowhere to be promoted to" I was thinking specficially that Janeway can't promote herself or elevate chakotay to her own rank.

More generally, there's the problem of lack of new job openings (unless someone gets killed) and there are limits to how far you can promote people when they're still in the post they held at launch.

But I'd have thought harry could have climbed one measly rank on the ladder, in recognition of his years service. Also, I mean, he's got a full-time bridge post and he sits in on command meetings. Unlike all the other Ensign Joneses that are working in engineering or laundry department or whatever. So he's already more accomplished than them. Think that justifies a pip on his collar.
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Old August 29 2013, 04:49 PM   #215
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Stoo wrote: View Post
Also, isn't 7 years just an awfully long time to be at the most junior rank? I would have thought just standard competent service would mean a promotion by then.
Well some of the main cast had nowhere to be promoted to. Or didn't have a rank. Tuvok did get a promotion, at least.
I think you answered your own question pretty much. For a ship with only 150 people it was way officer heavy anyways. Had Voyager had something more of a resolution beyond "they're home, fade to black" it's something we might have seen once they got back to Earth. But let's face it, above and beyond to earn one despite there being no need for a higher rank? If he was doing his job as the "ship's smart person" like Data at Ops in TNG... there would've been no need to bring in Seven later on.

You could argue Tores earned herself a promotion. Paris screwed up and went temporarily backwards.
Yeah... a person with violent rage issues, who's struck her co-workers, gone behind Janeway's orders and was once suicidally depressed is a great candidate for promotion.
co worker, not coworkers...and Chakotay punched a guy in the face too.

despite her depression she sure saved the butts of Tom, Harry, and Seven in the Delta Flyer

and Tuvok went behind Janeway's back and still got promoted

and she still kept the ship together in perfect working order without drydock or help from starfleet, without her they wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as they did
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Old August 29 2013, 11:17 PM   #216
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Stoo wrote: View Post
Isn't trek always officer-heavy? I think O'brien is the only NCO in the fleet...

By "nowhere to be promoted to" I was thinking specficially that Janeway can't promote herself or elevate chakotay to her own rank.

More generally, there's the problem of lack of new job openings (unless someone gets killed) and there are limits to how far you can promote people when they're still in the post they held at launch.

But I'd have thought harry could have climbed one measly rank on the ladder, in recognition of his years service. Also, I mean, he's got a full-time bridge post and he sits in on command meetings. Unlike all the other Ensign Joneses that are working in engineering or laundry department or whatever. So he's already more accomplished than them. Think that justifies a pip on his collar.
When they got Equinox, Janeway could have promoted herself to fleet captain. If they hadn't lost Equinox, that would have been necessary. Someone should have been promoted to Captain when they had the Dauntless as well.

Look at his collar, Chakotay is only a Lieutenant Commander.
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Old August 29 2013, 11:23 PM   #217
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

You can be the commanding officer of a ship without holding the rank of captain. The vast majority of co's in any modern navy aren't captains. With a few exceptions, Trek overlooks this.
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Old August 30 2013, 12:18 AM   #218
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Stoo wrote: View Post
Isn't trek always officer-heavy? I think O'brien is the only NCO in the fleet...

By "nowhere to be promoted to" I was thinking specficially that Janeway can't promote herself or elevate chakotay to her own rank.

More generally, there's the problem of lack of new job openings (unless someone gets killed) and there are limits to how far you can promote people when they're still in the post they held at launch.

But I'd have thought harry could have climbed one measly rank on the ladder, in recognition of his years service. Also, I mean, he's got a full-time bridge post and he sits in on command meetings. Unlike all the other Ensign Joneses that are working in engineering or laundry department or whatever. So he's already more accomplished than them. Think that justifies a pip on his collar.
You can still promote them in rank with no change in position. As you say he should have perhaps had got a promotion to Lt. JG at some point.

I mean having an extra lt. JG wasn't going to have any impact on Voyager. Just look at Kirk's crew by the time movies came esp. TVH,TFF and TUC. 3 Captain's onboard one ship all of which are/would make competant CO's themselves. Several Commanders who were capable of being First Officers etc..
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Old August 30 2013, 12:21 AM   #219
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

^
Which you would -never- see in a real military. That's just wasteful of training, talent and ability.
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Old August 30 2013, 12:25 AM   #220
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

True, but I guess once you've saved Earth, You might be able to pick your assignment.
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Old August 30 2013, 12:27 AM   #221
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

R. Star wrote: View Post
You can be the commanding officer of a ship without holding the rank of captain. The vast majority of co's in any modern navy aren't captains. With a few exceptions, Trek overlooks this.
That's true. But I imagine Starfleet wanted at least a Captain to command the Enterprise-D which was the flagship.

Also we saw Commander Sisko being in charge of the Defiant.
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Old August 30 2013, 12:32 AM   #222
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

I think the paper work just got held up on that.

They tried to make him a Captain as soon as the Defiant was first posted but even the bureaucracy of the Federation is a slack witted mule.
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Old August 30 2013, 12:29 PM   #223
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Surely they've evolved past paperwork?
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Old August 30 2013, 12:38 PM   #224
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

R. Star wrote: View Post
You can be the commanding officer of a ship without holding the rank of captain. The vast majority of co's in any modern navy aren't captains. With a few exceptions, Trek overlooks this.
In fairness, we only ever followed cruisers. If we had a series that followed an escort or something...
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Old August 30 2013, 12:44 PM   #225
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Who cares what their rank is. Someone is the Boss Person of the ship and that's that.
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