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Old August 29 2013, 05:57 AM   #31
DonIago
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
To have a tool like time travel and fail to use it - to not even TRY to change history - is a crime, in a way. Especially with so many lives at stake.
Um...the point is that in the end they -do- try...but history has other plans.

Anyway, I wouldn't respect the film nearly as much as I do if it had had a happy ending.
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Old August 29 2013, 06:22 AM   #32
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

I don't see Terry Gilliam's name as having anything to do with this production. That doesn't give me confidence. Maybe they're actually going back to the original source so that they don't have to pay him anything.

I'll say this for the film though, it gave me an appreciation for Brad Pitt's talent in the nuthouse scenes. I'd always discounted him as just a pretty boy before then.
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Old August 29 2013, 06:27 AM   #33
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

IIRC he studied people with actual mental illness prior to filming. In my opinion, it shows.
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Old August 29 2013, 11:47 AM   #34
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

Christopher wrote: View Post
Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
What happened to originality?
Well, in fairness 12 Monkeys is an adaptation of the French short film La Jetee. So something can lack originality and be good.
Rather, it is a complete misunderstanding of the concept to think that "original" means "not based on any preexisting idea." Every story concept is built on earlier ideas to a greater or lesser degree. The originality is in what you do with the concepts.
Yes, I worded that badly. What I meant to say was that just because something isn't based on an original premise or idea doesn't mean that it can't be good; that remakes can often be excellent.

By the same token, whether a 12 Monkeys TV series can work or not isn't about what it's based on or how closely it follows the film. It'll be about the imagination and vision of the people doing the adaptation. And that's the tricky part, because Gilliam's a hard act to follow when it comes to that sort of thing. A series might end up being somewhat more ordinary in tone. Particularly since we've already had a number of TV series or season arcs about characters trying to prevent an apocalyptic future. One would want a 12 Monkeys series to stand out from the pack, at least stylistically, at best conceptually.
That's what I was trying to say with the rest of my original post, when I referred to this project's absence of (among other things) the writing and direction that helped make 12 Monkeys so special.
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Old August 29 2013, 01:19 PM   #35
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Particularly since we've already had a number of TV series or season arcs about characters trying to prevent an apocalyptic future. One would want a 12 Monkeys series to stand out from the pack, at least stylistically, at best conceptually.
But in 12 Monkeys, you can't prevent anything, "it already happened." Though they might dilute or abandon that concept; the inevitable demise of five billion people could be considered a downer for TV audiences.
Well, the movie seemed to play with that more than you seem to be letting on. Yes, at the beginning, they said that you can't change anything. However, it seemed, in the thick of things, that Bruce Willis really wanted to try (and you begin to wonder if they were right about that in the beginning). In the end, of course, they clearly were right. However, whether or not they keep this aspect of timetravel, that's certainly something they can explore (I'm thinking Lost here, where altering time was also said to be impossible, but there was disagreement).

Klaus wrote: View Post
I love the movie and Siffy should keep its fetid hooks off it.
Are they somehow preventing people from watching the movie? Perhaps going back in time and altering it?
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Old August 29 2013, 02:15 PM   #36
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

Melakon wrote: View Post
I'll say this for the film though, it gave me an appreciation for Brad Pitt's talent in the nuthouse scenes. I'd always discounted him as just a pretty boy before then.
Brad Pitt may be a guy with a lot of mainstream recognition but he's really done a lot of unconventional roles.
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Old August 29 2013, 02:24 PM   #37
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
To have a tool like time travel and fail to use it - to not even TRY to change history - is a crime, in a way. Especially with so many lives at stake.
It's not a question of trying vs. not trying, but possible vs. impossible. They know how time travel works (in this movie), and nothing can be changed. The pandemic is going to happen no matter what, because it already happened. Whatever they did in the past already happened also, and didn't make any difference.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, the movie seemed to play with that more than you seem to be letting on. Yes, at the beginning, they said that you can't change anything. However, it seemed, in the thick of things, that Bruce Willis really wanted to try (and you begin to wonder if they were right about that in the beginning). In the end, of course, they clearly were right.
But that's just Cole's POV, and as the movie went along he began to be unsure of reality, and it was implied that he may have been losing his mind. It doesn't change how time travel worked in the context of the movie.
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Old August 29 2013, 02:36 PM   #38
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

Dream wrote: View Post
Syfy has announced that it will be greenlighting "12 Monkeys," a drama series based on the 1995 Universal Pictures film directed by Terry Gilliam, to pilot. The 60-minute cast-contingent pilot is being produced by Universal Cable Productions and Atlas Entertainment, producer of the original Bruce Willis-Brad Pitt theatrical.

Based on the Gilliam film (in turn inspired by Chris Marker's 1962 short, "La Jetée," "12 Monkeys" follows the journey of a time traveler from the post-apocalyptic future who appears in present day on a mission to locate and eradicate the source of a deadly plague that will eventually decimate the human race.
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=108200

The premise of the movie seems a bit limting to be made into a series. Would this just be "Seven Days" in a space suit?
Isn't this basically the plot of Odyssey 5?
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Old August 29 2013, 03:35 PM   #39
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
It's not a question of trying vs. not trying, but possible vs. impossible. They know how time travel works (in this movie), and nothing can be changed. The pandemic is going to happen no matter what, because it already happened. Whatever they did in the past already happened also, and didn't make any difference.
What they did in the movie is beside the point. A series would be a different take on the concept, a different continuity, and thus free to reinvent the concept in whatever way suits the series' needs. Just like virtually every TV adaptation of a movie ever made.
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Old August 29 2013, 03:46 PM   #40
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, the movie seemed to play with that more than you seem to be letting on. Yes, at the beginning, they said that you can't change anything. However, it seemed, in the thick of things, that Bruce Willis really wanted to try (and you begin to wonder if they were right about that in the beginning). In the end, of course, they clearly were right.
But that's just Cole's POV, and as the movie went along he began to be unsure of reality, and it was implied that he may have been losing his mind. It doesn't change how time travel worked in the context of the movie.
I'm not disagreeing, but the key there is "in the context of the movie." Given the television show would also be from his perspective and that they don't necessarily have to follow everything from the movie, they're free to toy with this idea and even change the rule. There's no reason for the audience to already know the answer, especially since the movie audience didn't definitively know the answer the first time watching it (precisely because we're following Cole's POV).
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Old August 29 2013, 03:55 PM   #41
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

Christopher wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
It's not a question of trying vs. not trying, but possible vs. impossible. They know how time travel works (in this movie), and nothing can be changed. The pandemic is going to happen no matter what, because it already happened. Whatever they did in the past already happened also, and didn't make any difference.
What they did in the movie is beside the point. A series would be a different take on the concept, a different continuity, and thus free to reinvent the concept in whatever way suits the series' needs. Just like virtually every TV adaptation of a movie ever made.
Quite right, as I acknowledged in post #25. The comment you quoted above was about the movie specifically.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
I'm not disagreeing, but the key there is "in the context of the movie." Given the television show would also be from his perspective and that they don't necessarily have to follow everything from the movie, they're free to toy with this idea and even change the rule. There's no reason for the audience to already know the answer, especially since the movie audience didn't definitively know the answer the first time watching it (precisely because we're following Cole's POV).
I refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer I gave a moment ago.
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Old August 29 2013, 04:09 PM   #42
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

I think all of the time travel in the movie is awesome and all, but no, the past is never changed. Any time travel into the past in the context of the film is a predestination paradox; always happened and always will.

...unless you care to think that Jones may have stumbled onto something new, but we don't get to see where things go with her, or from the "present" perspective where things might have gone with her.

Might have been interesting if Cole had run into Jones or another time traveler in the past before they had been sent into the past, so he could tell Future Folks that they would be sending someone into the past.

You know, as fond as I am of the theory that time travel into the past means that you've crossed over to a parallel timeline, I think in this particular case I'm not going to spend any time trying to unravel this movie in such a manner.

Also, I seem to remember the movie credits mentioning that there was a novelization. Does anyone else recall this, much less seeing the novelization itself? Because that would be...well, I don't even know...
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Old August 29 2013, 04:12 PM   #43
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

When you stop to think about it, predestination paradoxes don't work if you have sufficient information. If you know your history well enough to know exactly what you did in the "past", you can easily do something different.

You could do a Donnie Darko-style twist, where changing the past is possible but destabilizes things to the point where it must be avoided. You could do a Source Code-style twist, in which time travel doesn't change anything but can create a new timeline alongside the old. But a pure predestination paradox only works in very limited conditions.
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Old August 29 2013, 04:15 PM   #44
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
I refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer I gave a moment ago.
Fair enough. However, my point is that, in the movie, they gave a hope of saving those people's lives. The television show would presumably give the same hope. In order to do that, they have to leave open the possibility of being able to change time. The movie seemed to leave open this possibility as well. So far, the concept is exactly the same. The only difference is we've seen the movie and know that they were just teasing us when they seemed to leave it open.

This discussion started with the idea that watching a television series where we knew most of the people we meet are going to die would be a downer. I tend to agree, but I don't think being faithful to the source material requires this.
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Old August 29 2013, 04:15 PM   #45
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Re: 12 Monkeys pilot greenlit by Syfy

^^Except the whole point of a predestination paradox is that you -can't- do something different regardless of how much you try. Anything you do to try to escape the paradox is something you did previously.
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