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Old August 28 2013, 06:55 PM   #151
Lynx
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

teya wrote: View Post
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we were actually talking about Beltran bashing the writers, not Lien

as far as "speaking the truth" They're all entitled to their opinion, but while they'r ON the show and receiving a paycheck for it, I think it's incredibly poor taste to bash the show

would you go on tv and say horrible things about the company you work for and expect no consequenses at work for it?

if Beltran had issues with the writing there are channels he could have gone through, like the other actors did
Ah, but Lien must have coughed in the wrong tune on a Friday morning, otherwise the sensitive writers wouldn't have lost their abilities or their interest so quickly when it comes to writing for the character Kes.

As for Beltran, I admire him for having the guts to stand up and tell the truth about the sloppy writing.

For years, he had seen and experienced how his character was shoved more and more in the background and how his suggestions for the character were totally ignored. Finally he lost his temper, something that most of us would do.

So what did he have to lose? Nothing! It wouldn't have changed anything to continue to bow for the masters. They had already decided to place Seven and The Doctor at Janeway's side as the main characters and the rest as moving images in the background (except for the one they've already fired).

Besides that, lousy employers and lousy companies needs a smack on the head in public. Maybe they will learn to treat their employees better after that.
Regarding Jennifer. I doubt it had anything to do with her. The problem was that they'd written Kes into a box. She was nice & sweet & compassionate. She had great mental powers that she was just learning to tap.

"Nice & sweet & compassionate" means no drama.

Great mental powers has been done hundreds of times on Star Trek, dating back to TOS.

As I said before, that's the creative process. Some things work, some things don't. Not every artistic project is a success.

Regarding Beltran. Just because Person X says that the writers suck or he's the most talented member of the band does not make it true.
The comment from the writers that they had written Kes into a box is not the truth. They were able to come up with good Kes stories up to the last minutes of season 3 and Jeri Taylor was able to come up with good Kes stories in both "Mosaic" and "Pathways", the last one written during season 4. It's really strange how people suddenly lose the ability to write for one character over one night.

Not to mention that Kes had more and better stories than Kim during the whole series.

As for Beltran, obviously he was right about the writers. They couldn't come up with stories for some characters and were obviously not doing their job.

As for the band I used as an example before, X was actually the "good guy" in that drama.
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Old August 28 2013, 07:01 PM   #152
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Melakon wrote: View Post
The only difference between Beltran and some of us would be the money involved. Lots of people complain about their employer, some even quit. But if Beltran had quit, he stood to lose a few hundred thousand dollars a year possibly, as well as a suit for breach of contract. If they had fired him instead, mission accomplished and he could draw unemployment. The only time I tried to draw unemployment, I was turned down. They said I didn't look for work hard enough when there was a foot of snow on the ground and I had no car.
Beltran wanted to quit in season 6 but wasn't allowed to do it.
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Old August 28 2013, 07:10 PM   #153
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Melakon wrote: View Post
The company I worked for didn't give us that much warning. The summer before, they had acquired another company with 5000 employees. Those people were assured of a job for the next year, so the rest of us knew we were potentially doomed. I went into work one morning at 8:30, was immediately pulled into the manager's office and given the severance package, and ordered not to talk to anyone about it on the way out. I was out the door by 9:15am. It was an across the board 15% reduction, not even managers were safe.
ouch that sucks. Yeah I was lucky to get that much notice

I was at a long term temp assignment once when my agent called me and told me to very quietly gather my things and leave immediately, not even to finish the day but to be out of the building by noon that day. There were a total of 60 people who got that phone call, temps and people who worked there full time too
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Old August 28 2013, 07:11 PM   #154
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Lynx wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post

Ah, but Lien must have coughed in the wrong tune on a Friday morning, otherwise the sensitive writers wouldn't have lost their abilities or their interest so quickly when it comes to writing for the character Kes.

As for Beltran, I admire him for having the guts to stand up and tell the truth about the sloppy writing.

For years, he had seen and experienced how his character was shoved more and more in the background and how his suggestions for the character were totally ignored. Finally he lost his temper, something that most of us would do.

So what did he have to lose? Nothing! It wouldn't have changed anything to continue to bow for the masters. They had already decided to place Seven and The Doctor at Janeway's side as the main characters and the rest as moving images in the background (except for the one they've already fired).

Besides that, lousy employers and lousy companies needs a smack on the head in public. Maybe they will learn to treat their employees better after that.
Regarding Jennifer. I doubt it had anything to do with her. The problem was that they'd written Kes into a box. She was nice & sweet & compassionate. She had great mental powers that she was just learning to tap.

"Nice & sweet & compassionate" means no drama.

Great mental powers has been done hundreds of times on Star Trek, dating back to TOS.

As I said before, that's the creative process. Some things work, some things don't. Not every artistic project is a success.

Regarding Beltran. Just because Person X says that the writers suck or he's the most talented member of the band does not make it true.
The comment from the writers that they had written Kes into a box is not the truth. They were able to come up with good Kes stories up to the last minutes of season 3 and Jeri Taylor was able to come up with good Kes stories in both "Mosaic" and "Pathways", the last one written during season 4. It's really strange how people suddenly lose the ability to write for one character over one night.

Not to mention that Kes had more and better stories than Kim during the whole series.

As for Beltran, obviously he was right about the writers. They couldn't come up with stories for some characters and were obviously not doing their job.

As for the band I used as an example before, X was actually the "good guy" in that drama.
what you don't seem to be realizing is that it's all subjective. You think Beltran was right I think he was wrong. You think Kes had good stories, I think she didn't. It's all opinion

I think Beltran was just bitter that he wasn't the star
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Old August 28 2013, 07:14 PM   #155
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Lynx wrote: View Post
Beltran wanted to quit in season 6 but wasn't allowed to do it.
I don't understand why they didn't let him quit. He was bad-mouthing them at every opportunity and his character wasn't exactly doing much or bringing anything to the series.

If they'd gotten rid of him then they'd have brought back the skant when Seven was somehow made the ship's new XO, though this one would also be ridiculously low-cut as well.
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Old August 28 2013, 07:17 PM   #156
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
Beltran wanted to quit in season 6 but wasn't allowed to do it.
I don't understand why they didn't let him quit. He was bad-mouthing them at every opportunity and his character wasn't exactly doing much or bringing anything to the series.

If they'd gotten rid of him then they'd have brought back the skant when Seven was somehow made the ship's new XO, though this one would also be ridiculously low-cut as well.
if they wrote him off then Tuvok would be XO

as for not letting him go, I think it has to do with the contract
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Old August 28 2013, 07:18 PM   #157
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Lynx wrote: View Post
The comment from the writers that they had written Kes into a box is not the truth. They were able to come up with good Kes stories up to the last minutes of season 3 and Jeri Taylor was able to come up with good Kes stories in both "Mosaic" and "Pathways", the last one written during season 4. It's really strange how people suddenly lose the ability to write for one character over one night.
Well, here's the thing. I don't agree with you that the stories were good. They were derivative of other stories told hundreds of times before. And, according to the writers, they agree with me.


Not to mention that Kes had more and better stories than Kim during the whole series.
That much is true.

As for Beltran, obviously he was right about the writers. They couldn't come up with stories for some characters and were obviously not doing their job.
Beltran's character started as a racial stereotype & only got worse. How they were supposed to magically fix it is beyond me. And apparently beyond Beltran, who is on record as saying he wasn't supposed to do what Colm Meaney did to keep O'Brien from turning into a stereotype or what Picardo did to get more to do: give the writers ideas.

Thing is, there are times that you simply have to go above and beyond your job description. Beltran chose to whine & complain & trash other people publically instead of doing that.

Being someone who worked her way up from a blue collar job by taking every opportunity thrown at me and running with it, I don't have a whole lot of respect for that.
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Old August 28 2013, 07:23 PM   #158
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Even if Harry had been made the First Officer, he probably still would have been an Ensign.
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Old August 28 2013, 07:24 PM   #159
KaraBear
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

teya wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
The comment from the writers that they had written Kes into a box is not the truth. They were able to come up with good Kes stories up to the last minutes of season 3 and Jeri Taylor was able to come up with good Kes stories in both "Mosaic" and "Pathways", the last one written during season 4. It's really strange how people suddenly lose the ability to write for one character over one night.
Well, here's the thing. I don't agree with you that the stories were good. They were derivative of other stories told hundreds of times before. And, according to the writers, they agree with me.


Not to mention that Kes had more and better stories than Kim during the whole series.
That much is true.

As for Beltran, obviously he was right about the writers. They couldn't come up with stories for some characters and were obviously not doing their job.
Beltran's character started as a racial stereotype & only got worse. How they were supposed to magically fix it is beyond me. And apparently beyond Beltran, who is on record as saying he wasn't supposed to do what Colm Meaney did to keep O'Brien from turning into a stereotype or what Picardo did to get more to do: give the writers ideas.

Thing is, there are times that you simply have to go above and beyond your job description. Beltran chose to whine & complain & trash other people publically instead of doing that.

Being someone who worked her way up from a blue collar job by taking every opportunity thrown at me and running with it, I don't have a whole lot of respect for that.
That's the thing, every actor would meet with producers and discuss what they wanted out of their characters, if there were any changes they thought could be made and such. From what I heard, there are only two actors who never made time to meet and discuss their characters: Beltran, and Lien.
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Old August 28 2013, 07:25 PM   #160
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Melakon wrote: View Post
Even if Harry had been made the First Officer, he probably still would have been an Ensign.
Did Harry ever do anything to really earn a promotion? Did he ever go above and beyond?
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Old August 28 2013, 07:29 PM   #161
Melakon
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

He died a couple of times, but that's about it.
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Old August 28 2013, 07:31 PM   #162
teya
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

KaraBear wrote: View Post
That's the thing, every actor would meet with producers and discuss what they wanted out of their characters, if there were any changes they thought could be made and such. From what I heard, there are only two actors who never made time to meet and discuss their characters: Beltran, and Lien.
That's pretty common in television.

On the DVD extras for the 80s show "thirtysomething," one of the writers talks about how he'd sit in his office just letting one of the actresses chat with him *in character*. He got ideas from her just carrying on a conversation--in character. He won Emmys, she won Emmys, the show went down in history as groundbreaking television.

Sounds like an all-around win to me.
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Old August 28 2013, 07:31 PM   #163
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Melakon wrote: View Post
He died a couple of times, but that's about it.
hey, he only died twice
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Old August 28 2013, 07:32 PM   #164
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

teya wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
That's the thing, every actor would meet with producers and discuss what they wanted out of their characters, if there were any changes they thought could be made and such. From what I heard, there are only two actors who never made time to meet and discuss their characters: Beltran, and Lien.
That's pretty common in television.

On the DVD extras for the 80s show "thirtysomething," one of the writers talks about how he'd sit in his office just letting one of the actresses chat with him *in character*. He got ideas from her just carrying on a conversation--in character. He won Emmys, she won Emmys, the show went down in history as groundbreaking television.

Sounds like an all-around win to me.
yep, the actors get to know their characters and I'm sure they come up with good things. Picardo is actually famous in the Trek circle for getting lines changed and getting jokes added
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Old August 28 2013, 07:37 PM   #165
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

KaraBear wrote: View Post
Did Harry ever do anything to really earn a promotion? Did he ever go above and beyond?
He served very competently for several years. That should have been enough to get him to lieutenant junior grade. (wouldn't even have affected the chain of command much).
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