RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,791
Posts: 5,217,822
Members: 24,221
Currently online: 730
Newest member: soccerjerseys29

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 28 2013, 03:16 AM   #31
dub
Captain
 
dub's Avatar
 
Location: Location? What is this?
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

I didn't hate Nemesis, but I've always thought it would have been so much better and more dramatic (and more believable) if Patrick Stewart played Shinzon. Was that ever considered?
dub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 05:05 AM   #32
Lance
Fleet Captain
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

^ It was, apparently. I don't know why they didn't run with it. Maybe they thought having two Brent Spiners and two Patrick Stewarts running around on screen would have been too much?
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 05:59 AM   #33
AllStarEntprise
Captain
 
AllStarEntprise's Avatar
 
Location: Galactica Actual
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

^ on the 2009 release of Nemesis dvd and bluray, Brent Spiner talks about it. He says that Berman was against having everyone play 2 of themselves. This was when Nemesis was originally to be a Mirror Universe flick. Brent goes on to say something to the extent of they had done a lot of it before (DS9) and Rick really didn't understand it.

Even Berman hated the Mirror episodes of DS9! Brilliant.
AllStarEntprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 07:15 AM   #34
TheSubCommander
Commander
 
TheSubCommander's Avatar
 
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

I am still of the opinion that had rather than go with a clone of Picard, Shinzon could have also just been a renegade Romulan, with Sela as an ally, it would have been a lot better.
TheSubCommander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 07:54 AM   #35
AllStarEntprise
Captain
 
AllStarEntprise's Avatar
 
Location: Galactica Actual
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

^ You know Denise Crosby tried to get a part in the movie and Rick Berman told her there was no place where they could fit her in? Like wth man. She could've easily taken the bulk of Donatra's role. It could've been Sela and Donatra who rallied the Romulans to help the Enterprise fight Shinzon. Idk, if NEM had a bigger budget maybe it would've been better. $50 million for the film's budget and another $10 million for advertising. I think with a $100 million dollar budget we could've got a grander film. Which would include more shots of Romulus, a bigger cast, finer special effects and the big starship battle at the end with the two Romulans ships and Starfleet's Battle Group Omega vs the Scimitar. That would've been cool.
AllStarEntprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 09:23 AM   #36
CorporalClegg
Vice Admiral
 
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

The first "how could Nemesis have been better" thread I remember appeared not long after the film.

I had suggested instead of cloning Picard they cloned Kirk from his corpse on Veridian III. Then have Spock kidnapped while he was on Romulus, brain washed and thus becoming the viceroy. And no B4. So basically the film becomes Picard/Data vs. Evil Kirk/Spock.

Yeah, it's silly (I was 10 years younger.), but really not anymore stupid than the actual plot. Plus, it had that extra element of awesome going for it.

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
^ You know Denise Crosby tried to get a part in the movie and Rick Berman told her there was no place where they could fit her in? Like wth man. She could've easily taken the bulk of Donatra's role. It could've been Sela and Donatra who rallied the Romulans to help the Enterprise fight Shinzon.
That doesn't really match with her character.
__________________
I haven't much to say.
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 09:42 AM   #37
lurok
Commodore
 
lurok's Avatar
 
Location: Lost in the EU expanse with a nice cup of tea
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
So basically the film becomes Picard/Data vs. Evil Kirk/Spock.
I'd much rather have watched that.
__________________
"Don't torture yourself, Gomez. That's my job"
lurok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 09:49 AM   #38
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

Nemesis should have re-introduced Lore and Tom Riker, and a clone of Picard at his age.

TRIPLE TWINS!

Also flashbacks to Tasha Yar and then future scenes with Sela.

QUADRUPEL THE FUN!

In hindsight, Nemesis reminds me of this

__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 11:00 AM   #39
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

BillJ wrote: View Post
It got beat by the Jennifer Lopez Rom-com Maid in Manhattan its opening weekend. Nemesis would've done better if it had been a better movie.
Nemesis probably would have gotten better boxoffice if it had Jennifer Lopez in it.

Maybe in the Shinzon role, the actor they did hire didn't look all that much like Picard either.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 01:09 PM   #40
TheSubCommander
Commander
 
TheSubCommander's Avatar
 
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
^ You know Denise Crosby tried to get a part in the movie and Rick Berman told her there was no place where they could fit her in? Like wth man. She could've easily taken the bulk of Donatra's role. It could've been Sela and Donatra who rallied the Romulans to help the Enterprise fight Shinzon. Idk, if NEM had a bigger budget maybe it would've been better. $50 million for the film's budget and another $10 million for advertising. I think with a $100 million dollar budget we could've got a grander film. Which would include more shots of Romulus, a bigger cast, finer special effects and the big starship battle at the end with the two Romulans ships and Starfleet's Battle Group Omega vs the Scimitar. That would've been cool.

Yeah they definitely could have fit Denise Crosby in there. Even if they kept Donatra...they could have been rivals, that were forced to work together, and Picard, to fight Shinzon. In fact, it would have made the then seemingly hopeful beginnings of a Federation-Romulan thaw in relations, dare I say a treaty or alliance, mean that much more if someone like Sela and Picard could work together.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
It got beat by the Jennifer Lopez Rom-com Maid in Manhattan its opening weekend. Nemesis would've done better if it had been a better movie.
Nemesis probably would have gotten better boxoffice if it had Jennifer Lopez in it.

Maybe in the Shinzon role, the actor they did hire didn't look all that much like Picard either.


Yeah, if you are going to have someone play a clone of someone else, they need to have some kind of resemblance other than being bald!

They should have used Patrick Stewart to play Shinzon for sure. The guy looks pretty much like he did even back in the 1970s (IE other than the fake hair, he looks the same as when he was in I, Claudius, to me). For Nemesis, they could have CGI-smoothed his face some in the beginning of the movie, and aged him up as he got sicker.
TheSubCommander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 01:18 PM   #41
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

I guess I'm one of the few that thought Tom Hardy did a decent job with the material he had.

Denise Crosby should've been in Nemesis but in a non-speaking role. Same haircut as Yar, in security yellow and wearing lieutenants pips. As Sela? It would have made a bad movie even more laughable.
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 01:45 PM   #42
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
They should have used Patrick Stewart to play Shinzon for sure. The guy looks pretty much like he did even back in the 1970s (IE other than the fake hair, he looks the same as when he was in I, Claudius, to me). For Nemesis, they could have CGI-smoothed his face some in the beginning of the movie, and aged him up as he got sicker.
I liked the idea of a battle-hardened, adult Patrick Stewart Shinzon with a big fat scar over his entire head.
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 03:36 PM   #43
austen_pierce
Commander
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
They should have used Patrick Stewart to play Shinzon for sure. The guy looks pretty much like he did even back in the 1970s (IE other than the fake hair, he looks the same as when he was in I, Claudius, to me). For Nemesis, they could have CGI-smoothed his face some in the beginning of the movie, and aged him up as he got sicker.
I liked the idea of a battle-hardened, adult Patrick Stewart Shinzon with a big fat scar over his entire head.
According to Data's report, Shinzon fought in the Dominion War. Maybe have Shinzon masked to hide his true identity during those events with a dramatic reveal scene in Nemesis.
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 03:58 PM   #44
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

BillJ wrote: View Post
I guess I'm one of the few that thought Tom Hardy did a decent job with the material he had.

Denise Crosby should've been in Nemesis but in a non-speaking role. Same haircut as Yar, in security yellow and wearing lieutenants pips. As Sela? It would have made a bad movie even more laughable.

I agree with you, I don't think Tom Hardy's performance was an issue. And I don't think that him not really looking like Picard was either.

For me the bigger concern was that the CHARACTER of Shinzon was nothing like Picard. He's more like "random psycho of the week" than a supposed "dark mirror" of Picard, so the concept doesn't work for me.
__________________
"why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2013, 05:00 PM   #45
jpv2000
Captain
 
jpv2000's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, United States
Re: Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

I actually loved Nemesis. It is my favorite TNG movie.

Probably because of the simple reason of finally letting Riker and Troi marry and making Riker a Captain. Both of which I had wanted for years.

I also love the Titan series which Nemesis gave birth to so to speak. Nemesis basically made all my hopes for TNG trek come true.
jpv2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.