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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 27 2013, 02:48 PM   #16
Garrovick
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

Well, Worf didn't really have a specific permanent station assignment yet at this point in the series. And we know from "Lonely Among Us" that junior officers spent at least some of their time on non-bridge assignments. So I always just figured that Worf was serving a temporary duty assignment in Engineering or someplace during "Code of Honor".
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Old August 27 2013, 02:54 PM   #17
Avon
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

Timo wrote: View Post
so that's just another way of saying you're not going to address what i said.
Sorry, you said something?

black people being portrayed as savages = racist stereotype, because it just is racist.
"It's racist because it's racist"? I think there should be brains involved somewhere in the process of "saying"...

Timo Saloniemi
so you think 'black savages kidnap white woman' isn't racist and is perfectly fine.

yes, i am totally the one in the wrong here.
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Old August 27 2013, 02:57 PM   #18
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

Timo wrote: View Post
Pink people definitely exist - I am one, and I suppose you are as well. Pink people are world-famous for their savagery and kidnapping of women, too. And they have a history of being portrayed negatively. So why isn't "High Ground" a racist episode?

Timo Saloniemi
You related to Shran? He also loved calling people "pink skin".
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Old August 27 2013, 04:50 PM   #19
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

junxon wrote: View Post
so you think 'black savages kidnap white woman' isn't racist and is perfectly fine.
We may interpret it as racist and the implications of what the final product may look like may not have been thought through. But was the intent of the episode racist?

Russ Mayberry, the director who was fired went on to work on In the Heat of the Night, a show that dealt with racism in the Southern United States.

Lets not forget that the episode casting had to have been approved by Roddenberry as he had the final word during season one.
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Old August 27 2013, 05:44 PM   #20
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

while it may not have been on purpose, it comes across that way on viewing, and thats what i judge tv shows on. so it doesn't matter about intent, 'accidental' racism is still racism.
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Old August 27 2013, 05:50 PM   #21
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

junxon wrote: View Post
while it may not have been on purpose, it comes across that way on viewing, and thats what i judge tv shows on. so it doesn't matter about intent, 'accidental' racism is still racism.
Which is your right. I try to look at both intent and the final product when making this type of judgement.

Code of Honor is still one of the worst episodes in seven-hundred plus hours of Trek though.
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Old August 27 2013, 05:51 PM   #22
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

Worf originally wasn't supposed to be regular, and Roddenberry didn't even want any Klingons on the show.
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Old August 27 2013, 05:57 PM   #23
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

I think the final product is only racist on the shallowest surface level. Considering that the "white woman kidnapped" there's also other women in the story who are the leaders of their alien culture.

I feel bad for the writer because if they had cast in any other way, it would just be any old episode.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:00 PM   #24
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

Makarov wrote: View Post

I feel bad for the writer because if they had cast in any other way, it would just be any old episode.
Next time, he/she shouldn't write a shitty script!
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Old August 27 2013, 06:03 PM   #25
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Makarov wrote: View Post

I feel bad for the writer because if they had cast in any other way, it would just be any old episode.
Next time, he/she shouldn't write a shitty script!
Yes, it would have been a bad episode either way.

And, yes, a planet of black people in which the leader can't help himself from kidnapping a blonde woman does indeed strike me as racist.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:07 PM   #26
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
And, yes, a planet of black people in which the leader can't help himself from kidnapping a blonde woman does indeed strike me as racist.
But the action, in and of itself, wasn't really racist. He was enamored by Yar but was using her to off his wife.

Keith DeCandido (Trek author) watched "Code of Honor" for Tor.com in May 2011. He thought the episode was riddled with clichés, and says that the episode only seems racist because of the casting even though the script didn't call for it. "If the Ligonians had been played by white people, none of the dialogue would change, and nobody would call it racist".
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Old August 27 2013, 06:10 PM   #27
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

BillJ wrote: View Post
junxon wrote: View Post
while it may not have been on purpose, it comes across that way on viewing, and thats what i judge tv shows on. so it doesn't matter about intent, 'accidental' racism is still racism.
Which is your right. I try to look at both intent and the final product when making this type of judgement.

Code of Honor is still one of the worst episodes in seven-hundred plus hours of Trek though.
i agree that more than likely the script didn't have any intent, but the casting is where it became troublesome.


Keith DeCandido (Trek author) watched "Code of Honor" for Tor.com in May 2011. He thought the episode was riddled with clichés, and says that the episode only seems racist because of the casting even though the script didn't call for it. "If the Ligonians had been played by white people, none of the dialogue would change, and nobody would call it racist".
if they had been native american instead of black, i think that would be rascist too, both have been subject to 'savage' charicatures in media. its the historical negative portrayals that have to be taken into account.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:23 PM   #28
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

But then you have to ask, why can't they cast an entire alien race as black when they do it with white people? Insurrection's race for instance, which Frakes mentions doesn't have a black person in sight. If Insurrection's village was all black instead of white would it be called racist too?
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Old August 27 2013, 06:28 PM   #29
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

junxon wrote: View Post

if they had been native americans instead of black, i think that would be rascist too, both have been subject to 'savage' charicatures in media. its the historical negative portrayals that have to be taken into account.
I think sometimes people tend to take things a bit too far. Would the episode still be racist if only Lutan were black?

Do we only give 'savage' roles to white actors now because if we give it to a minority it'll be called a caricature and the producers will be accused of racism? Of course, the producers will also be accused of racism if they refuse to give 'savage' roles to minority actors.

White people (I'm one) have said and done alot of shitty things over the centuries but don't penalize minority actors because of it. I'm for giving any role to the actor best suited to play it.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:28 PM   #30
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Re: Why wasn't Worf in Code of Honor?

Timo wrote: View Post
I guess I'll never fathom what about the episode was racist.
The episode itself wasn't. Why does having the ruler of a planet being black equal "racist?"

junxon wrote: View Post
sorry but when the stereotype is a planet of black savages that kidnap a white woman, it's racist.
But if the rulers had be cast solely with lily white actors and actresses then your confusing label of savages would persist?

Savages have their own transporter system?

The planet's leader was setting up his wife to be killed in a duel, the dialog stated that he'd done this before with women from the planet, after Yar's (lame) martial art demostration he saw her as a possible device to kill his wife.

It's not like he kidnapped her because he personally/sexually wanted her. Yar was a tool.

Far from being racist, the episode highlight how often Star Trek cast leadership characters using mostly white actors. We should have seem more non-white characters ... not less.

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