RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,423
Posts: 5,506,713
Members: 25,130
Currently online: 586
Newest member: wilpatbenthe3

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old August 26 2013, 08:22 PM   #31
Ho Ho Homeier
Vice Admiral
 
Ho Ho Homeier's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's place
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

As aired though, those cut parts of the Orion Trader scene were unnecessary. The conversation as is made me think back to the Pike/Boyce scene in his cabin immediately when I first saw it.
__________________
Curly: Oh, you hit Santa Claus. Just for that, no toys! --Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Ho Ho Homeier is offline  
Old August 26 2013, 08:42 PM   #32
SnowboredShipCapt'n
Commodore
 
SnowboredShipCapt'n's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' with BoredShipCapt'n
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

^ Either way, my name gets in the scene.
SnowboredShipCapt'n is offline  
Old August 26 2013, 11:08 PM   #33
feek61
Captain
 
feek61's Avatar
 
Location: The Sunshine State
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

One thing I will say about "The Menagerie" is that they did a superb job editing . . . better than the full version of "The Cage." The pacing to me is just better. One thing about "The Cage" that just drives me crazy every time I see it is when Pike and Vina are fighting the K'lar and after they knock him down the stairs; what do they do? They pause for a conversation instead of running or preparing for the next combat. That edited scene plays MUCH better in "The Menagerie" edit. There are others but I'm sure you all have your own opinions so I won't bore you with mine.
__________________
feek61 is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 12:17 AM   #34
Nine of Four
Commander
 
Nine of Four's Avatar
 
Location: On a Borg Cube in the Delta Quadrant
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

feek61 wrote: View Post
They pause for a conversation instead of running or preparing for the next combat. That edited scene plays MUCH better in "The Menagerie" edit.
Agreed. And just because Vina had the illusion of youth, doesn't mean she has the body of one. Throughout the episode, she is jumping and running around, but when the Talosians take her illusion away, she can barely stand.

-

Last edited by Nine of Four; August 27 2013 at 12:27 AM.
Nine of Four is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 12:36 AM   #35
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

What Pike sees is controlled by the Talosians.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 01:31 AM   #36
Daddy Todd
Captain
 
Daddy Todd's Avatar
 
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

I'd like to see the full B&W version, with the original soundtrack, possibly cleaned up a little (but not too much!)
Daddy Todd is online now  
Old August 27 2013, 01:47 AM   #37
Ho Ho Homeier
Vice Admiral
 
Ho Ho Homeier's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's place
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

It was brave of Susan Oliver though, to let herself be uglified like that.
__________________
Curly: Oh, you hit Santa Claus. Just for that, no toys! --Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Ho Ho Homeier is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 10:26 AM   #38
Tiberius
Commodore
 
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

Christopher wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
It got Lucassed.
Lucas was hardly the first creator to rework his creation when given the opportunity. Few creators are ever entirely satisfied with the published/released versions of their works. The "finished" work is the end result of a lengthy process of rethinking and revision and trial and error, so why should that process end just because the story's been released to the public? The creator's still going to think of new ideas and improvements and fixes even after it's come out, especiall once there's audience feedback to point out flaws the creator didn't notice before.

So many writers have revised their novels on later re-releases, even rewritten them as completely new novels -- like Arthur C. Clarke reworking Against the Fall of Night into The City and the Stars, or David Gerrold expanding Yesterday's Children into Starhunt and then rebooting it entirely as Voyage of the Star Wolf.
Maybe so, but Lucas is the one that's famous for doing it.
Tiberius is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 01:34 PM   #39
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

Christopher wrote: View Post
The "finished" work is the end result of a lengthy process of rethinking and revision and trial and error, so why should that process end just because the story's been released to the public? The creator's still going to think of new ideas and improvements and fixes even after it's come out, especiall once there's audience feedback to point out flaws the creator didn't notice before.
Since you brought it up: George Lucas did not fix the editing flaw in the first X-Wing attack run in the first Star Wars film and many others. But he altered something nobody except him found fault with: That Han Solo shot first.

Gary Kurtz put it eloquently: If George Lucas (1976) would have wanted Greedo to shoot first, he could have already done that in the original, theatrical edition! People change and in this particular case George Lucas became "Citizen Lucas", IMHO. I prefer the vision of the idealistic, young creator and not the revisionistic one of the Emperor the young man had become. Nor do I like that the late Ridley Scott is drowning most of his films in blue color. These things are not improvements, they are alterations of once talented directors that seem to have become senile.

Back to the topic:
IIRC the first releases of "The Cage" on home video were mostly the original b & w film which had been "colorized".

"Colorization" of b & w classics (Ted Turner having been one of the strongest advocates) was quite controversial in the late 1980's but in this exceptional case a convenient tool, IMHO.

However, I'm not sure whether they edited the color footage from "The Menagerie" together with the newly colorized b & w elements.

(I could also add a few comments on George Lucas' feelings about colorization, but that would probably be too much OT )

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 02:30 PM   #40
CaptainDave1701
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

I got to see it as it was originally printed on VHS back in the 80's. It was a great experience to see it all put together....seams and all.
CaptainDave1701 is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 03:32 PM   #41
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Maybe so, but Lucas is the one that's famous for doing it.
In some circles, perhaps. And he's hardly "the one," just the most recent one. A number of earlier directors famously remade their own films altogether, such as Hitchcock with The Man Who Knew Too Much or DeMille with The Ten Commandments.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 03:44 PM   #42
Ho Ho Homeier
Vice Admiral
 
Ho Ho Homeier's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's place
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
. . .Nor do I like that the late Ridley Scott is drowning most of his films in blue color. . .
Ridley is still alive. His brother Tony died.

And "drowning" might not have been the most appropriate word choice.
__________________
Curly: Oh, you hit Santa Claus. Just for that, no toys! --Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)

Last edited by Ho Ho Homeier; August 27 2013 at 04:53 PM.
Ho Ho Homeier is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 03:55 PM   #43
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
IIRC the first releases of "The Cage" on home video were mostly the original b & w film which had been "colorized".
Absolutely not. It was the b/w workprint of "The Cage", as used by Roddenberry at conventions and university lectures throughout the 70s, with all the colour footage from the pilot as featured in "The Menagerie" two-parter replacing those scenes.

In all the publicity surrounding the release on VHS, the original editor realised he still had possession of the missing colour trims. He didn't have the soundtrack trims, though, so they needed the b/w reel's sound for those when the full-colour version was used in "A Star Trek Saga: From One Generation to the Next" and on VHS.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 03:57 PM   #44
SnowboredShipCapt'n
Commodore
 
SnowboredShipCapt'n's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' with BoredShipCapt'n
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

IIRC the first releases of "The Cage" on home video were mostly the original b & w film which had been "colorized".

"Colorization" of b & w classics (Ted Turner having been one of the strongest advocates) was quite controversial in the late 1980's but in this exceptional case a convenient tool, IMHO.

However, I'm not sure whether they edited the color footage from "The Menagerie" together with the newly colorized b & w elements.
The first home video release of "The Cage" didn't have anything colorized. The b&w elements were edited in and the finished product kept cutting or dissolving between color and b&w.

(Edit: I see I've been beaten to the punch.)
SnowboredShipCapt'n is offline  
Old August 27 2013, 05:14 PM   #45
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: "The Cage" Original Version

feek61 wrote: View Post
One thing I will say about "The Menagerie" is that they did a superb job editing . . . better than the full version of "The Cage." The pacing to me is just better. One thing about "The Cage" that just drives me crazy every time I see it is when Pike and Vina are fighting the K'lar and after they knock him down the stairs; what do they do? They pause for a conversation instead of running or preparing for the next combat. That edited scene plays MUCH better in "The Menagerie" edit. There are others but I'm sure you all have your own opinions so I won't bore you with mine.
You're saying the Talosians were fantastic editors?
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
original, restoration, the cage

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.