RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,962
Posts: 5,391,829
Members: 24,719
Currently online: 603
Newest member: terkarivish

TrekToday headlines

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Dorn To Voice Firefly Character
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

No ALS Ice Bucket For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Free Star Trek Trexels Game
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 24 2013, 07:04 PM   #1
Hoshi3
Lieutenant Commander
 
Hoshi3's Avatar
 
Location: Hoshi3
Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

Admiral Janeway went back in time to get Voyager home early. While doing that, she also destroyed the Unicomplex. The thing is, it doesn't really make sense. Since Voyager got home earlier than they should have, admiral Janeway would most likely not have gone to the past and never have destroyed the Unicomplex. Right?
Hoshi3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2013, 07:11 PM   #2
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

Yeah, it's a classic paradox, which is often the problem in time travel stories.
__________________
Moe: I'll take the blonde!
Larry: I'll take the brunette!
Curly: I'll take the Black and Tan!
--Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Melakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2013, 12:23 AM   #3
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

Most Trek time travels don't work like that. What winds up in that past, stays in the past and usually nothing vanishes. Cos if you think about it, if Admiral Janeway vanished, then she'd never have gone back in time and Voyager would never get back early and the whole thing undoes itself.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2013, 12:43 AM   #4
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

I once tried to write a story where the Enterprise-D was knocked forward in time while monitoring the test of a new propulsion system. In that future, the Federation, the Klingon, and the Romulan Empires didn't exist because Enterprise wasn't around to defeat a new threat to the galaxy. But I couldn't figure a way out of the box. While I was working on it, TNG: New Ground aired with a similar subplot of a new propulsion system, so I gave up. I was trying to write spec scripts at the time, and each time I'd get halfway through one, there'd be an episode or preview with elements of whatever story I was working on at the time. It happened at least 3 times, so at least I knew I was on the right wavelength.
Melakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2013, 01:38 AM   #5
Lt. Uhura-Brown
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Zealand
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

If she'd arrived three days before Voyager encountered the transwarp hub instead of three days after, the entire situation could have been avoided.

Set up the Bat-Voyager, then second aperture to the right and straight on 'til home.
Lt. Uhura-Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 08:06 AM   #6
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

Hoshi, the answer to your question is: Sela Yar.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeanwhile...

Had KJ appeared on scene 6 days earlier, then Joe wouldn't be breathing dirt.

Maybe 8 days?

9 at a stretch.

The Destruction of the Unicomplex and accompanying regicide did not require Voyagers participation in the slightest.

If the Admiral killed the Queen, and the Borg fell to pieces a week before Janeway found the Hub, wouldn't the crew have been able to do wonders after they found the powered down hub and dozens of out of comission Cubes in that Nebula?

Although dealing with the hub and whatever junkyard doglike parasitic power resided near by thinking they could salvage the Hub since it's literally legal fricking Salvage after the Borg had all died, wouldn't that have been a pefect bookend for what happened with Caretakers Array?

"Sigh".

Although they couldn't call the Hub an Array.

Say this word out loud and try not to smirk... Borgarray.

Doesn't it sound almost like Buggery?

For years we've been saying that there was criminaly no pink agenda on Voayger, and this just goes one step further proving that the producers were deathly affraid of introducing the audience to a familiarity with Borgarray.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 09:05 AM   #7
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

Just look at how they dealt with the time travel paradoxes in Relativity. All kinds of random crap going on... they don't care.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 09:10 AM   #8
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

There were no paradoxes in Relativity.

They kept writing over timelines with new continuity.

Of course, if you're outside time or shielded, you don't get overwrit when your history disappears from underneath your footing.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 06:09 PM   #9
KaraBear
Captain
 
KaraBear's Avatar
 
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

R. Star wrote: View Post
Just look at how they dealt with the time travel paradoxes in Relativity. All kinds of random crap going on... they don't care.
they didn't have any paradoxes in relativity
KaraBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 06:16 PM   #10
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

The Destruction of the Unicomplex and accompanying regicide did not require Voyagers participation in the slightest.
But that wasn't part of Admiral Janeway's original plan. She had no interest in hurting or destroying the Borg, only in allowing the hero ship to safely slip into one of those transwarp conduits.

Arriving early and destroying the hub wouldn't really meet the Admiral's primary goal of getting Tuvok home in time for his pills. At least not assuredly so...

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 06:34 PM   #11
KaraBear
Captain
 
KaraBear's Avatar
 
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

Timo wrote: View Post
The Destruction of the Unicomplex and accompanying regicide did not require Voyagers participation in the slightest.
But that wasn't part of Admiral Janeway's original plan. She had no interest in hurting or destroying the Borg, only in allowing the hero ship to safely slip into one of those transwarp conduits.

Arriving early and destroying the hub wouldn't really meet the Admiral's primary goal of getting Tuvok home in time for his pills. At least not assuredly so...

Timo Saloniemi
Exactly, she didn't want to go after the Borg, she kind of flipped a bit when young janeway suggested it. She brought the torpedoes and armor so they could zoom past any cubes and go right into the hub
KaraBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 11:09 PM   #12
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

She was a lying trollop.

If the former science officer of the Al-Batani was too fricking stupid to notice that her cloak was incompatible with Voyager, take a step back and wonder what other holes there are in her master plan that aren't so easy to spy?

Sneak through = Cloak.

Fight through and destroy the Borg = Batmobile armour and torpedoes.

Hell.

It only would have been 50 trips at most, and taken a couple days if Janeway had just slipped the crew home in her cloaked shuttle through the Borg transwarp network piecemeal, if they had decided to leave Voyager behind. And you know that that means that they'd have to scuttle it... The Doctor is an idiot from eye of the Needle thinking that he would just hang out in Sick bay forever after the ship had been abandoned.

Janeway is egregious and difficult.

She resists the will of her betters who know better.

Janeway knows this.

So Janeway gave Janeway something to rebel against, forcing her to do exactly what her older self always wanted her to do, by insisting that that is NOT what she wanted to do.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 11:55 PM   #13
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

I hate Temporal mecahnics.

But what should have happend is in the future starfleet would have monitored Janeway's escapdes and sent back people to undo her changes. After all VOY introduced the concept that in the future the Federation monitors the timeline so "Endgame" should never have happened and VOY should still be on her way home.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2013, 12:35 AM   #14
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

But there are whales in the 24th century.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

Last edited by Guy Gardener; August 27 2013 at 01:26 AM.
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2013, 01:05 AM   #15
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

Guess we're screwed if the dodo birds send a giant probe.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
endgame, janeway

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.