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Old August 26 2013, 09:24 PM   #16
Melakon
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

O'Brien's the equivalent of a 20-year Sergeant snapping to attention when a peach fuzzed Lieutenant walks by.
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Old August 26 2013, 09:26 PM   #17
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

...Or at least when a thick-bearded Commander does so.

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Old August 28 2013, 07:20 PM   #18
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

Timo wrote: View Post
I think even Tom should have had a provisional rank
Starfleet probably bought him by promising him the two pips. Janeway thus felt she had the authority to deliver them after the capture-Chakotay-and-relieve-Tuvok mission went (mostly) as planned; that'd be different from Janeway giving pips to the Maquis on her own account.
no, according to Caretaker after their two week trip he was going right back to jail, and Janeway would give him a good word at his next review
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Old August 28 2013, 07:21 PM   #19
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

Melakon wrote: View Post
O'Brien's the equivalent of a 20-year Sergeant snapping to attention when a peach fuzzed Lieutenant walks by.
well since he's not an officer even an ensign outranks him
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Old August 28 2013, 09:23 PM   #20
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

no, according to Caretaker after their two week trip he was going right back to jail, and Janeway would give him a good word at his next review
Yeah, that's what she said - but not necessarily what she was planning on really doing with Tom afterwards. She certainly wouldn't promise too much, but promising less than was coming would be a good tactical move in bribing the somewhat likeable criminal.

Tom's conduct in "Caretaker" wasn't particularly saintly, so what made Janeway "change her mind" would be either the unexpected circumstances, or the fact that she and Starfleet had been planning on absolving Tom in the first place, or then both. Certainly the ship still retained a working brig for Tom to inhabit (and this might have been the safest place for him aboard a ship full of Maquis) if Janeway wanted to stay true to her word.

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Old August 28 2013, 09:26 PM   #21
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

Timo wrote: View Post
no, according to Caretaker after their two week trip he was going right back to jail, and Janeway would give him a good word at his next review
Yeah, that's what she said - but not necessarily what she was planning on really doing with Tom afterwards. She certainly wouldn't promise too much, but promising less than was coming would be a good tactical move in bribing the somewhat likeable criminal.

Tom's conduct in "Caretaker" wasn't particularly saintly, so what made Janeway "change her mind" would be either the unexpected circumstances, or the fact that she and Starfleet had been planning on absolving Tom in the first place, or then both. Certainly the ship still retained a working brig for Tom to inhabit (and this might have been the safest place for him aboard a ship full of Maquis) if Janeway wanted to stay true to her word.

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I think she saw something in him, especially when he wanted to go down there to help Harry
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Old August 28 2013, 09:26 PM   #22
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

KaraBear wrote: View Post
I think even Tom should have had a provisional rank
I always chalked that one up to good old fashioned nepotism being she was buddies with his dad.
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Old August 28 2013, 10:24 PM   #23
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

Depending how messy Kathryn and Owen were... Tom was her brother or son.

But Owen was certainly her fatherinlaw after she hatched those lizards.
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Old August 28 2013, 10:30 PM   #24
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

"Tom... I am your mother!!!!"

"NOOOOOOOO!!!! That's impossible!"

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Old August 28 2013, 10:45 PM   #25
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

Figuratively his sister or mother.

(Kathryn could have donated an egg?)

The girl science officer emotionally distant from her own family?

There's no way she wasn't invited to a couple Paris family dinners.

If it wasn't for what was said in the pilot, you know canon, arguments could be made that she knew him as a child. Arguments could also be made that Tom Paris is still a child.

There's a line in the miniseries about alien abduction "Taken", where the snot nose girl from Blair Witch and Max headroom finally start frakking, despite a 25 year age difference and that he's her fathers best friend and subordinate.

Max "I've wanted to do this since you turned 18."

Blair witch girl: "Really? I've wanted to do you since I was 10."
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Old August 29 2013, 02:59 AM   #26
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

R. Star wrote: View Post
"Tom... I am your mother!!!!"

"NOOOOOOOO!!!! That's impossible!"

This is a fairly well known trope in Fan Fiction Land. Most often Tom is her son, but sometimes he is her brother.
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Old August 29 2013, 07:30 AM   #27
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

If Luke and Leia had kids, before they figured out who they were to each other, would those inbred (Royalty and a hillbilly? Is it only the middle classes that look for nookie outside their familial group?) children would be extremely powerful force users?

Maybe that's why Jedi are not allowed to fall in love, because they're not allowed to breed becuase second generation jedi are too powerful to avoid courruption to the darkside?
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Old August 29 2013, 08:47 AM   #28
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

They are not allowed to fall in love because the Jedi hierarchy were invested in being fascist control freaks and running a system first, with people second. Also why Jedi children were not allowed their own mothers from very young ages.

As to Tom being Janeway's son.. what did she give him away when she was a teenager? Surely in the enlightened future a teenager can keep their child with plenty of childcare available and whatnot since there is no money.
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Old August 29 2013, 08:59 AM   #29
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

She didn't want the infant mewling and puking in her arms. Gets in the way of the career path.
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Old August 29 2013, 09:15 AM   #30
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Re: Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

That's my point though, it's the FUTURE, there are holo-nannys. In the books B'Elanna gets a Klingon holo-nanny that can kick ass and read bed time stories. So you should be able to have a kid as a teenager and continue your starfleet career with your kid being cared for at home with the only requirement being home holo-emitters. Which would be very bad if your electricity went off but once again, it's the future. And because everyone is so enlightened no one is going to look down on you because you presumptuously reproduced in youth.

AND! You don't even have to go through the horribleness of pregnancy, you can get the baby beamed out and into a surrogate, maybe even a robotic surrogate that walks around and sneezes and farts and totally simulates growing inside a real human being.
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