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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old August 26 2013, 06:17 AM   #91
Nob Akimoto
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

I have to wonder about the renaming, thing. Naval tradition has it to be EXTREMELY bad luck to rename a ship once she's in commission, though they've done it more than a few times (especially when they'd convert a wooden warship to something like a hospital ship, or receiving ship, or whatever). I suppose that might explain the whole "Gremlins" thing in TFF, but you'd think someone like Scotty might be superstitious enough to object.
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Old August 26 2013, 02:25 PM   #92
Timo
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

Well, Scotty is an old merchant engineer, supposedly ("Operation: Annihilate!" and "Relics"). And merchant shipping is not particularly worried about renaming: merchant vessels today change name more often than they do laundry, as they frequently change ownership.

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Old August 26 2013, 02:40 PM   #93
blssdwlf
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

Curious. Does making a run with the merchants as an "engineering advisor" make Scotty a merchant engineer or was he simply a Starfleet Engineer helping out the merchants?
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Old August 26 2013, 05:09 PM   #94
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

To me, the implication was that Scotty worked on other, lesser Starfleet ships before working on the Enterprise, with perhaps a short civilian stint even earlier. YMMV.
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Old August 26 2013, 05:54 PM   #95
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

His resume in "Relics" includes "freighters, cruisers, starships", eleven in total. Supposedly, he ever only worked on two starships (and was Chief Engineer on both, but never on any of the previous ships), unless there were assignments during the movie era that we aren't aware of, or pre-TOS assignments that go unmentioned. But we don't know for sure.

FWIW, no lesser Starfleet vessels are mentioned in the "Relics" list. "Starships" in TOS parlance apparently are the same thing as "heavy cruisers", so the word "cruiser" here is likely to refer to pleasure cruiser instead.

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Old August 26 2013, 06:08 PM   #96
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

But, the Lantree was arguably a freighter, and was a Starfleet ship? And cruiser to Scotty's mind may've meant something different than Starship. If the Enterprise is a heavy cruiser, maybe he thinks of cruisers as smaller.
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Old August 26 2013, 06:15 PM   #97
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

In the past, I've seen others refer to the Miranda class as a "light cruiser", as opposed to a "heavy frigate" (the latter originating from the Avenger-class schematics from either SSA or MDC back in the mid-80's, IIRC), neither of which are canon. It is still a "cruiser" in some people's eyes - an overused, ubiquitous and highly ambiguous term in Trek, to be sure.
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Old August 26 2013, 06:19 PM   #98
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

But, the Lantree was arguably a freighter, and was a Starfleet ship?
Not really. Being a military vessel, she would have been a "transport", never a "freighter", and indeed never was called by the civilian term.

Nor by the military one, for that matter - she was a "supply ship" instead, and while this may mean she was a regular starship that happened to be delivering supplies, the extra dialogue on her being "Class Six" and having a small crew suggest that she was a dedicated, special vessel instead.

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Old August 26 2013, 06:20 PM   #99
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

The TNGTM implies that "cruiser" is still a Starfleet classification, along with surveyor, scout, cargo carrier, and transport and those are also distinct from the "Explorer" class. It might make sense for "starship" to be a classification that was renamed explorer at some point. Presumably a freighter could probably fit onto those categories as a cargo carrier.
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Old August 26 2013, 06:27 PM   #100
Timo
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

But in TNG, every Starfleet vessel is a starship (Sisko even pretends his runabout is one in "Vortex"!), so "cruiser" has an excuse to be a Starfleet subcategory there.

Amusingly, Star Trek is almost as strict about the difference between "freighter" and "transport" as the real-world navies are. On the other hand, the TNG TM mentions "tanker", which is another civilian term. Navies don't have "tankers", they have "fuel transports" - it's air forces that have tankers (the flying sort), and armies (the people who drive tanks). Although that's nowhere as strict a thing as navies never having "freighters".

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Old August 26 2013, 06:40 PM   #101
Robert Comsol
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
In the past, I've seen others refer to the Miranda class as a "light cruiser", as opposed to a "heavy frigate" (the latter originating from the Avenger-class schematics from either SSA or MDC back in the mid-80's, IIRC), neither of which are canon. It is still a "cruiser" in some people's eyes - an overused, ubiquitous and highly ambiguous term in Trek, to be sure.
But since USS Reliant is a member of the Miranda Class and indicated by Chekov in his log entry to be a "starship", this would make other Mirandas starships, too, wouldn't it?

@ Praetor & Workbee

If Picard would have actually paid attention to the bridge alcove he would have noticed that the TOS Enterprise belonged to the "Starship Class".

Despite the retroactive continuity attempt involved in the scene (to manifest the Constitution Class assumption), I wonder if Scotty's "Aye" meant Picard was correct, was correct that the last Enterprise Scotty served on (NCC-1701-A) was a Constitution Class starship or whether Scotty was simply too drunk to give Picard a history lesson and just went along...

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Old August 26 2013, 07:45 PM   #102
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

Well, surely Picard saw and knew and understood Starship = Constitution.

I have to admit, Scotty must have had a longer civilian career based on the above in some capacity. There isn't any other reason to distinguish starships from freighters and cruisers unless this is the intention.
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Old August 26 2013, 11:48 PM   #103
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

I really do profoundly dislike the whole TOS "starship" vs "spaceship" nonsense. It seems like a lazy and puerile oversimplification of ship designations by the writers at the time, almost like they really didn't care about such things back then - and they probably didn't. The Merikus dialog in "Bread and Circuses" nicely muddied the waters even further, and it wasn't until the show was well underway that "Constitution" was starting to get used. Personally, I think the whole "star/spaceship" thing should be retconned out of existence along with other little gems like the "time warp barrier" and "Vulcanians" and never spoken of in polite company - ever again...
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Old August 27 2013, 03:44 AM   #104
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

Could be that "starship" once referred to a specific type of ship that required a certain set of properties to be met, just like how "ship" once referred to three-masted square-rigged ships but then became a more generic description of large ocean-going craft. "Cruiser" when we're talking pre-steam ships were everything ranging from the various types of sloops up to a 5th rate ship-rigged frigate, so Scotty might have been playing a bit fast and loose with terms at some point. That and he'd had half a bottle of Aldeberan Whiskey.
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Old August 27 2013, 03:46 AM   #105
Avro Arrow
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Re: Was the Enterprise A actually the Yorktown?

Timo wrote: View Post
Amusingly, Star Trek is almost as strict about the difference between "freighter" and "transport" as the real-world navies are.
Praetor wrote: View Post
I have to admit, Scotty must have had a longer civilian career based on the above in some capacity. There isn't any other reason to distinguish starships from freighters and cruisers unless this is the intention.
Hmm... I just brought this ship up in another thread, so it's top of mind, but wasn't the Starfleet-operated USS Huron identified as a freighter? If so, maybe they weren't as strict about this in the TOS era, and so it wouldn't necessarily imply Scotty had a civilian career prior to his Starfleet one. (To be fair, it doesn't rule it out, either!)
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