RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,521
Posts: 5,512,256
Members: 25,138
Currently online: 459
Newest member: Tosty82

TrekToday headlines

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 25 2013, 03:55 PM   #61
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

BillJ wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
And those who profess "you haven't watched Star Trek until you've seen it on Blu-Ray" border on offensive.
And no where have I said that.
No, you didn't, but it was said upthread.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
IMO, until you've seen Trek in HD, you haven't really ever seen Trek.
At the risk of seeming over sensitive this pricked me the wrong way.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2013, 05:26 PM   #62
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Warped9 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
And those who profess "you haven't watched Star Trek until you've seen it on Blu-Ray" border on offensive.
And no where have I said that.
No, you didn't, but it was said upthread.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
IMO, until you've seen Trek in HD, you haven't really ever seen Trek.
At the risk of seeming over sensitive this pricked me the wrong way.
Yes, it does make you seem over-sensitive. A jump from 420 to 1080, whether you see it or not, is a much bigger jump than the jump from VHS to DVD, and means you literally haven't seen all the show if you haven't seen it in blu-ray (or on 35mm film, of course.) If pointing that out offends you, I don't really know what to say.

We can agree to disagree on the TOS BD sets. But I think we're both TOS purists at heart and probably have more in common than not.
plynch wrote: View Post
SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post

It's a question of personal cost/benefit. It's better, but is it x-number of dollars better? That's going to vary depending on the individual.
Well that part I certainly get. What I don't get is this outright pooh-poohing of the Blu-ray sets.
They look better. Already said that. I just don't care. Why is that hard to understand? Not everyone cares about the same things. If they make them 3-d, that might be a big enough thing for me to want.
The difference with that is that 3D is adding something to the show that was never there before, whereas the HD transfer is allowing viewers to see what was always there in the show but limited TV and broadcasting tech never allowed us to see before. For a purist like me, I wouldn't bother with 3D. I'm not down with changes just for the sake of changing things.
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I just don't understand your position at all.
I'm happy with the DVD sets I have (circa 2006 or thereabouts). I can't justify spending the money to buy something yet again for a little extra resolution.

What I have presently satisfies we whenever I want to watch a TOS episode and they're sufficient whenever I need a screencap for one of my photomanips. TOS is my favourite overall series ever, but I draw the line when it comes to expressing my fan interest. Speaking only for myself it's folly to spend money for something I already have and for little gain. If I didn't already have the DVD sets or they were stolen or lost somehow (heaven forbid) then it would make sense to get the Blu-Ray sets even though I have no interest in TOS-R. But as it stands I don't have the incentive or justification to spend that money.
Okay, that I get. I'm actually right there with you. I haven't bothered with the TNG sets, even though I'm impressed with them. I don't really feel like I need to own movies anymore, what with streaming services and Netflix to rent disks from, other options I can take advantage of for a fraction of the cost. I think the TNG footage I've seen looks fantastic, although in TNG's case they are actually recreating the show, whereas TOS was simply transferred in HD. That satisfies a purist like me, though I know it wasn't possible for TNG.
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Does anyone know if they created the remastered episodes from the original 35mm? or from the DVDs produced in 1999 or 2004?
They went back to the 35mm film masters and made new tranfers.

I'm thinking that both the 1999 and 2004 versions have pieces cut out to fit in an hour broadcast but I don't really know. I would like to get the most complete version of TOS that I can.
Nope, they were not cut for the bluray. There were, however, things added to the show for the DVDs (annoying little additions like the ship engine rumble, which was not present in most episodes originally) that were, unfortunately, retained for the bluray. If you want a set of the series with the least amount of tweaks and closest to the original network broadcasts, you have to get the VHS sets. It's changes like that that annoy me, but, like I said, they're present on the DVD and the bluray versions.

People complain about "The Cage" cuts, but AFAIK, it's because this is the actual version of the episode which aired on television. The aired version of the episode should be the one included. It didn't air until 1988, but it did air, and is appropriately placed at the end of the set (since it was the last TOS episode to air). But it doesn't matter anyway, because the full longer release -- the one with mixed B&W and color footage -- is also included in the bluray set as an extra feature (along with the original version of the second pilot, WNMHGB, which was different from the aired version). So nothing's lost.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2013, 06:17 PM   #63
plynch
Commodore
 
plynch's Avatar
 
Location: Outer Graceland
View plynch's Twitter Profile
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Had I owned the VHS tapes I might have kept them and not gone to DVD; but I only had a few and -- odd as it may sound -- I sent them to missionaries in Africa who are big Trekkies. I figured they needed a boost more than I. Thus my purchase (or getting as presents) of the beloved clamshells.

I guess I am glad that my not wanting a more colorful and clearer picture of a (great) '60s TV show befuddles people. There are many things I don't want.
__________________
Author of Live Like Louis! Inspirational Stories from the Life of Louis Armstrong, http://livelikelouis.com
plynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2013, 06:56 PM   #64
Ho Ho Homeier
Vice Admiral
 
Ho Ho Homeier's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's place
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Warped9 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
And those who profess "you haven't watched Star Trek until you've seen it on Blu-Ray" border on offensive.
And no where have I said that.
No, you didn't, but it was said upthread.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
IMO, until you've seen Trek in HD, you haven't really ever seen Trek.
At the risk of seeming over sensitive this pricked me the wrong way.
I didn't find it offensive, but to me it seems to say if you're financially unable to convert to Blu-Ray, you're not a Star Trek fan. And since I can't afford to upgrade to Blu-Ray, ergo... It doesn't seem to matter that when I did have a disposable income, I was buying the VHS episodes in blocks of ten as they were released. But that's unimportant because I can't afford Blu-Ray. The worst I can say is the comment was unintentionally insulting. I live on about 15k a year, from disability benefits. A long time from the days when I was making 40k.
__________________
Curly: Oh, you hit Santa Claus. Just for that, no toys! --Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Ho Ho Homeier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2013, 07:14 PM   #65
SpHeRe31459
Captain
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
This is very unscientific of me but I'm playing the 1999 double episode DVD Tholian Web against the 2004 unremastered Tholian Web DVD on two computers.

The double episode DVD I have is region 1 and the later version is Region 4 which shouldn't make any difference.
The players on the different computers say that the 1999 version is 50.0 minutes while the 2004 version is 48:13.
The region matters very much. Region 4 includes countries which use PAL, region 1 is NTSC. The native framerates of the two standards are different, PAL has a well known ~4% speedup applied to content that originated from film. Hence why your 2004 copies run time is a little bit shorter. However, nothing is cut.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/576i#PAL_speed-up

50 mins (Region 1) x 4% = 2 mins, which is what you see in the Region 4 run time: ~48 mins.

Last edited by SpHeRe31459; August 25 2013 at 07:34 PM.
SpHeRe31459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2013, 08:58 PM   #66
Mr_Homn
Captain
 
Mr_Homn's Avatar
 
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Warped9 wrote: View Post
And those who profess "you haven't watched Star Trek until you've seen it on Blu-Ray" border on offensive.
Yeah, I think only one person said that, and I agree that it's way over the top to phrase it that way. Of course you have seen star trek. The important thing is that you don't allow a silly comment like that make you think less of the Blu rays.

It is true that the Blu Rays are a very significant increase in quality. I actually think the VHS to DVD jump in a lot of ways was less significant.

I totally understand not wanting to make the purchase for them. It's perfectly reasonable and the DVDs are a very enjoyable star trek viewing experience. I personally just like to have the very best for my favorite show, and I have been spoiled by the quality of the BD's so it's hard for me to go back and watch the DVDs or VHSs now.

Fortunately I received these as a birthday gift from a loved one a couple years ago, so I never had to make the purchase myself. Though, If I had to, I think I would now that the price has come down, and I work for an unimpressive hourly wage. Everyone's situation is unique of course.
__________________
"Thank you.. for the drinks."

Last edited by Mr_Homn; August 25 2013 at 09:09 PM.
Mr_Homn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 12:18 AM   #67
SantaSpock
Fleet Captain
 
SantaSpock's Avatar
 
Location: CommishSleer
View SantaSpock's Twitter Profile
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I think the TNG footage I've seen looks fantastic, although in TNG's case they are actually recreating the show, whereas TOS was simply transferred in HD. That satisfies a purist like me, though I know it wasn't possible for TNG.
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Does anyone know if they created the remastered episodes from the original 35mm? or from the DVDs produced in 1999 or 2004?
They went back to the 35mm film masters and made new tranfers.

I'm thinking that both the 1999 and 2004 versions have pieces cut out to fit in an hour broadcast but I don't really know. I would like to get the most complete version of TOS that I can.
Nope, they were not cut for the bluray. There were, however, things added to the show for the DVDs (annoying little additions like the ship engine rumble, which was not present in most episodes originally) that were, unfortunately, retained for the bluray. If you want a set of the series with the least amount of tweaks and closest to the original network broadcasts, you have to get the VHS sets. It's changes like that that annoy me, but, like I said, they're present on the DVD and the bluray versions.
OK Thnks very much for the information.
I sucker that I am bought almost every version of TOS as they came out including the VHS (long gone) and want to think that at least I have the best version somewhere in my library. LOL. So the clamshells and bluray seem to be OK and not full of the mysterious cuts that I've been thinking.

SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
This is very unscientific of me but I'm playing the 1999 double episode DVD Tholian Web against the 2004 unremastered Tholian Web DVD on two computers.

The double episode DVD I have is region 1 and the later version is Region 4 which shouldn't make any difference.
The players on the different computers say that the 1999 version is 50.0 minutes while the 2004 version is 48:13.
The region matters very much. Region 4 includes countries which use PAL, region 1 is NTSC. The native framerates of the two standards are different, PAL has a well known ~4% speedup applied to content that originated from film. Hence why your 2004 copies run time is a little bit shorter. However, nothing is cut.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/576i#PAL_speed-up

50 mins (Region 1) x 4% = 2 mins, which is what you see in the Region 4 run time: ~48 mins.
Thanks for the good explanation. I was getting paranoid there.
SantaSpock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 12:36 AM   #68
Ho Ho Homeier
Vice Admiral
 
Ho Ho Homeier's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's place
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Counters may vary by machine too. I watch everything through Windows Media Player. Someone had mentioned a scene happening at a specific moment, but when I went to that spot, it wasn't the scene. I couldn't find it with a brief look a few minutes in either direction.

Believe me, if I had the money, I would probably be on the Blu-Ray wagon too.
__________________
Curly: Oh, you hit Santa Claus. Just for that, no toys! --Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Ho Ho Homeier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 04:52 AM   #69
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

There was a scary time in the 1970s when the show was being syndicated on 16mm film reels that were shipped physically around the country to TV local stations.

The film prints were getting progressively more beat-up, dirty, and faded. It got bad. And on top of that, the local stations would do their own cutting and splicing to free up more commercial time.

Lacking any sophistication in the subject, a lot of us did not know that there were 35mm masters of each episode stored safely in Hollywood. We thought that the cut scenes would never be seen again, and that Star Trek itself was deteriorating, disintegrating, decomposing before our eyes. It seemed like soon the show would be gone forever.

Then in the mid-80s, Star Trek was re-mastered-- a glorious restoration, clean with bright colors-- and syndicated on video tape. The cuts for time were far shorter but far more numerous and clever. The best part was learning that the series was safe on those 35mm masters and, one way or another, it would live forever.
ZapBrannigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 07:23 AM   #70
HaplessCrewman
Commander
 
HaplessCrewman's Avatar
 
Location: Office of Scientific Intelligence
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

I read somewhere that CBS (or Paramount at the time) had two copies of each episode on 35mm and that the original release on DVD (in the 2 episode discs) were created by combining the best elements of each of those film masters.

Has anyone else ever heard this?

I thought the DVDs looked good but the blu-rays are way better. Better depth of field, color saturation, definition, etc.
__________________
Better than he was before. Better...stronger...faster.
HaplessCrewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 09:42 AM   #71
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post
I thought the DVDs looked good but the blu-rays are way better. Better depth of field, color saturation, definition, etc.
I really don't want to sound too nitpicky but the BD feature talking about the remastering process has some visual demonstrations that hint, IMHO, that contrast was pimped to add an artificial punch to the otherwise mild and softer overall original presentation.

Fortunately this doesn't get close to the mess that is the Special Edition of Star Wars, but its something to be considered, IMHO.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 02:21 PM   #72
Mario de Monti
Captain
 
Mario de Monti's Avatar
 
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

DoctorZ wrote: View Post
I've checked on Amazon and clicked on all the links posted. I cannot find the 1999 Two Episode per disc DVD's for sale anywhere. None of the DVD's listed have the full 52 minute running time per episode, although one of them said 51 minutes. However, that's still one minute of footage I don't want to miss!
Are you not looking for these DVDs, with the orange covers?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_3?...qid=1377523208
__________________
"Do you give me attitude, Spock?" - "I´m expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, Sir. To which are you referring?"
Mario de Monti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2013, 02:36 PM   #73
Cap'n Claus
Rear Admiral
 
Cap'n Claus's Avatar
 
Location: ssosmcin
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

DoctorZ wrote: View Post
I've checked on Amazon and clicked on all the links posted. I cannot find the 1999 Two Episode per disc DVD's for sale anywhere. None of the DVD's listed have the full 52 minute running time per episode, although one of them said 51 minutes. However, that's still one minute of footage I don't want to miss!
Star Trek on DVD never ran 52 minutes. If episodes reached that length without commercials, they would have had the one minute previews attached and with the "sponsored by" and "station identification" billboards attached. Without the previews, the episodes run, uncut, about 50-51 minutes (The Menagerie part 1 ran 49 minutes to make room for the expanded previews). Nothing from the 2 episode DVDs are missing from box set. No footage from the DVDs are missing from the Blu-Rays. The previews are not attached to the episodes, so that's a minute each right there (a minute 30 for The Menagerie).

Aside from The Tholian Web issue in the first release, and one or two glitches on the VHS tapes, the episodes on DVD have the same content as the VHS and Laserdiscs (trust me, I still have every episode from each format released except Beta). No scenes are missing. The only alterations these days concern the sound mix. Otherwise, no matter which format you choose, you are not going to miss any footage (again, except for the Tolian Web stuff in the first DVD release).
__________________
"Tranya is people!"
Cap'n Claus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2013, 04:17 AM   #74
SantaSpock
Fleet Captain
 
SantaSpock's Avatar
 
Location: CommishSleer
View SantaSpock's Twitter Profile
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
DoctorZ wrote: View Post
I've checked on Amazon and clicked on all the links posted. I cannot find the 1999 Two Episode per disc DVD's for sale anywhere. None of the DVD's listed have the full 52 minute running time per episode, although one of them said 51 minutes. However, that's still one minute of footage I don't want to miss!
Are you not looking for these DVDs, with the orange covers?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_3?...qid=1377523208
Yes thats it. At least thats the double DVD that I've got.
SantaSpock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2013, 04:27 AM   #75
Ho Ho Homeier
Vice Admiral
 
Ho Ho Homeier's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's place
Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

That's my copy of Menagerie in there too.
__________________
Curly: Oh, you hit Santa Claus. Just for that, no toys! --Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Ho Ho Homeier is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
collection, dvd, uncut

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.