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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 25 2013, 06:08 AM   #46
plynch
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
I guess what I don't understand in all of this "DVDs are good enough" stuff is why wouldn't you want the best presentation you can get (the closest we're going to get for the foreseeable future to having your own pristine 35mm copy of each episode)?
It's a question of personal cost/benefit. It's better, but is it x-number of dollars better? That's going to vary depending on the individual.
Well that part I certainly get. What I don't get is this outright pooh-poohing of the Blu-ray sets.
They look better. Already said that. I just don't care. Why is that hard to understand? Not everyone cares about the same things. If they make them 3-d, that might be a big enough thing for me to want.
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Old August 25 2013, 06:13 AM   #47
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Wow! This has become quite a discussion. I'm all for Blu-Ray versions of Star Trek, but not at the compromise of edited and/or deleted material. There is a simple way to tell which version DVD release as the unedited and uncut versions; simply check the running time. On all the old two-episode DVD's the shows run for 52 minutes. Last time I checked, the Blu-Ray versions were 47 minutes. That's a significant chunk of editing that I will not tolerate!
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Old August 25 2013, 06:20 AM   #48
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

The "Menagerie" dvd I mentioned earlier shows a total running time of 99 minutes, so they've been chopped too, though all the dates show 1999. I'm not sure where the cuts are, because I'm not noticing anything missing.
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Old August 25 2013, 06:30 AM   #49
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

I've checked on Amazon and clicked on all the links posted. I cannot find the 1999 Two Episode per disc DVD's for sale anywhere. None of the DVD's listed have the full 52 minute running time per episode, although one of them said 51 minutes. However, that's still one minute of footage I don't want to miss!
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Old August 25 2013, 06:33 AM   #50
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Melakon wrote: View Post
The "Menagerie" dvd I mentioned earlier shows a total running time of 99 minutes, so they've been chopped too, though all the dates show 1999. I'm not sure where the cuts are, because I'm not noticing anything missing.

As I recall there was only one release of the uncut Menagerie, on DVD, and that was shortly after it first aired on TV/Cable or whatever. It was a separate stand-alone DVD with two versions of the episode on it as well as other bonus material and cast interviews. I never bought it.
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Old August 25 2013, 06:37 AM   #51
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

It may have also been possible that the first two-episode DVD releases of Star Trek included never before scene material from each episode too. This would actually be a bigger selling point for me than Blu-Ray or enhanced digital effects.
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Old August 25 2013, 07:00 AM   #52
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

DoctorZ wrote: View Post
Wow! This has become quite a discussion. I'm all for Blu-Ray versions of Star Trek, but not at the compromise of edited and/or deleted material. There is a simple way to tell which version DVD release as the unedited and uncut versions; simply check the running time. On all the old two-episode DVD's the shows run for 52 minutes. Last time I checked, the Blu-Ray versions were 47 minutes. That's a significant chunk of editing that I will not tolerate!
You can't always believe running times. When the first widescreen VHS of ST:TMP came out, it was the theatrical version, but the box artwork mistakenly retained the longer running time of the "Special Longer Version" VHS.

The Blu-ray eps are the TOS episodes intact. There is absolutely no way those are missing five minutes of footage from each episode. However, remember that as each new-CGI ep was premiered on US TV, they were indeed trimmed to fit new commercial TV insert parameters. But they were definitely intact for the subsequent home entertainment DVDs.

Also, the stated 52-mins running times on the twin-packs may be a holdover of the old VHS three-packs, in which George Takei, James Doohan and Walter Koenig filmed special new introductions to each episode?

DoctorZ wrote: View Post
It may have also been possible that the first two-episode DVD releases of Star Trek included never before scene material from each episode too.
But that's not correct.

You are thinking about the eps as shown on 80s TV syndication, when local stations trimmed out scenes. When the eps first came out on DVD, some viewers were finally able to see scenes that had been missing for decades. Check the details of the trims in the old "The Nitpickers Guide to TOS" book by Phil Farrand.

As I recall there was only one release of the uncut Menagerie, on DVD, and that was shortly after it first aired on TV/Cable or whatever. It was a separate stand-alone DVD with two versions of the episode on it as well as other bonus material and cast interviews. I never bought it.
"The Cage" came out on sell-thru VHS, in a patched together version of the b/w workprint footage and the colour stuff from "The Menagerie" two-parter. And included an introduction by Gene Roddenberry, which included the revelation that the transporter pads from TOS had survived as part of the transporter room set for TNG.

After the huge publicity campaign about "The Cage"'s home video release, the original editor came up with the reel of colour trims that had been missing in his attic for decades, and an all-colour version was assembled for inclusion in the TV documentary, "A Star Trek Saga: From One Generation to the Next". It got a subsequent VHS release and both versions are on the DVDs and Blu-rays. (Supposedly the Blu-ray version has a very tiny trim missing that was accidentally left out when the masters were prepared.)

As for supposed cuts to "The Menagerie", remember that when two-parters are edited together into one presentation, the end credits of Part 1 and opening credits of Part 2, plus the "last week on 'Star Trek'" narration, are not required in the middle. So running times will vary.

Ah, there's a dedicated thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...14#post8543614
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; August 25 2013 at 08:06 AM. Reason: more
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Old August 25 2013, 08:17 AM   #53
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Not everyone immediately jumps onto the "gotta have the latest thing 'cause it's SOOO much better" wagon.
Immediately jumping? The latest thing? HD has been the standard for years now. It's not a fad that's going away.

You're acting like we're talking about 3d here. 3d is a terrible fad that is failing. HD is what every single major tv channel broadcasts in. Even spanish channels.

DoctorZ wrote: View Post
Wow! This has become quite a discussion. I'm all for Blu-Ray versions of Star Trek, but not at the compromise of edited and/or deleted material. There is a simple way to tell which version DVD release as the unedited and uncut versions; simply check the running time. On all the old two-episode DVD's the shows run for 52 minutes. Last time I checked, the Blu-Ray versions were 47 minutes. That's a significant chunk of editing that I will not tolerate!

Where the heck are you getting your information from? I own the blu rays, I have checked the running times. Every single episode is around 52 minutes.
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Old August 25 2013, 09:00 AM   #54
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Is it possible some of the early DVD releases were time-compressed? Though that should show a noticeable difference in voices and music.
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Old August 25 2013, 09:13 AM   #55
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

The question keeps being posed despite already being answered: how can someone pass over getting the BD issues when they're obviously superior to what has come before, particularly if you're a devoted fan?

Some of us don't see the upgrade as sufficient for the extra expense of purchasing another copy of something we already own and are happy with.
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Old August 25 2013, 10:22 AM   #56
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

This is very unscientific of me but I'm playing the 1999 double episode DVD Tholian Web against the 2004 unremastered Tholian Web DVD on two computers.

The double episode DVD I have is region 1 and the later version is Region 4 which shouldn't make any difference.
The players on the different computers say that the 1999 version is 50.0 minutes while the 2004 version is 48:13.

They start off playing in stereo and then the 2004 starts going past the 1999 version. I suspect they are cutting like a half a second of some cutaway shots so that by the 4 minute mark the 2004 DVD is 4 seconds ahead of the 1999. I'm watching it carefully and eyeballing for deleted scenes. Its difficult to spot very small differences in scenes. Its only that the episodes are in slightly different places on both computers that I can tell there is a difference.

So then I would conclude that the 1999 version has more footage than the 2004 version except I found an extra 5-10 second scene at about the 40 minite mark on the 2004 version. So you can't really say that the 1999 or 2004 version is better. This scene is in the bluray as well so only missing from the 1999 version. Unless my 1999 version is faulty (its 14 years old) but it seems to be a logical unimportant scene to cut.

Is there any other explanation for the time difference that anyone can think of. I can't interchange the playback on the computers as both computers are differently region coded.
All I'm thinking is that both versions have different footage missing.

I'm going to look at the Empath when I've got time. Its the only other 1999 version I got
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Old August 25 2013, 10:30 AM   #57
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Sorry about the duplicate post.

Last edited by CommishSleer; August 26 2013 at 12:03 AM.
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Old August 25 2013, 03:33 PM   #58
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

I can understand not wanting to pay to upgrade, but those who think the Blu-ray's are only slightly better than the DVD's are deluding themselves. It is a night-and-day difference.

And none of the episodes on Blu-ray have a run time shorter than fifty-one minutes.
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Old August 25 2013, 03:39 PM   #59
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

And those who profess "you haven't watched Star Trek until you've seen it on Blu-Ray" border on offensive.
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Old August 25 2013, 03:47 PM   #60
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Re: Old Star Trek TOS DVD's

Warped9 wrote: View Post
And those who profess "you haven't watched Star Trek until you've seen it on Blu-Ray" border on offensive.
And no where have I said that.

I've watched TOS on everything from a 13" black & white set to my current 40" LCD. It is the one thing that I never mind spending money on.

I would've easily dropped the $120 dollars on the three volumes of These are the Voyages if it hadn't been for the controversy surrounding the pictures.
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