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Old August 23 2013, 04:51 PM   #31
CommishSleer
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
While I don't really have a strong position on the man, at one point in Trek Nation (iirc) he said something to the effect that the fact that his father regularly cheated on his mother made him respect his father more.

Have to admit that made me regard him in a slightly negative light.

Poor Majel
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Old August 23 2013, 05:00 PM   #32
Admiral James Kirk
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

I don't feel sorry for Majel. She knew what she was marrying. After all she was the other woman once too.
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Old August 23 2013, 06:49 PM   #33
137th Gebirg
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

^^^ Exactly.

I think the other reason I never "hated" Rod Roddenberry, is that I never fully drank his daddy's koolaide. Yes, I truly enjoy the show. Yes, I have all the episodes on DVD (except Voyager ). Yes, I've made my own uniforms and gone to cons when I was younger (I refuse to call it cosplay!) But I'm also far too jaded and cynical to believe that Gene's vision of humanity in the future is nothing more than a pleasant fiction. I have never lived and breathed by his utopian vision and, therefore, not insulted when people take shots at the man and --GASP-- tell stories of a fallible human being who had his ups and downs, just like everyone else.

I love all things Battlestar Galactica and I feel the same way about Glen Larson. Yeah, he created what is probably my all-time favorite TV show, but so what? He's just this guy, y'know? He's not God, and neither is Gene with his "Great Bird of the Galaxy" moniker...

So, to get somewhat philosophical, we now seem to be in an era of extreme deconstructionism, tearing down the heroes of old to see if they were something other than these magnificently lionized superhuman creatures in idealized paintings, music and poetry - which, of course, they were. Recent revelations about the early history of the US is a topical case in point (its "discovery" by Columbus, the Founding Fathers, the legend of the Ride of Paul Revere, etc). This attitude clearly extends into the world of pop culture, probably through the perverse fascination of "Reality TV" to see how "real" people live their lives (despite the fact that there is little that has anything to do with reality in such offerings). It's really almost quite voyeuristic, if you think about it. Social media probably plays a key role in this phenomenon as well, in a world where people are tweeting their daily bowel movements.

It is the way of things today, I'm afraid.
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Old August 23 2013, 06:50 PM   #34
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

Didn't Star Trek teach us better than to hate?
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Old August 23 2013, 10:07 PM   #35
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
^^^ Exactly.

I think the other reason I never "hated" Rod Roddenberry, is that I never fully drank his daddy's koolaide. Yes, I truly enjoy the show. Yes, I have all the episodes on DVD (except Voyager ). Yes, I've made my own uniforms and gone to cons when I was younger (I refuse to call it cosplay!) But I'm also far too jaded and cynical to believe that Gene's vision of humanity in the future is nothing more than a pleasant fiction. I have never lived and breathed by his utopian vision and, therefore, not insulted when people take shots at the man and --GASP-- tell stories of a fallible human being who had his ups and downs, just like everyone else.
It's interesting how two people can come from very different viewpoints and arrive at the same place.

While I don't consider myself a "kool-aid" drinker (although I know exactly the kind of person you are speaking of) I do indeed live and breathe the vision of Star Trek (which I don't view as a true utopia but that's a discussion for another thread). However I have never felt upset by revelations of the true nature of Gene Roddennberry or anyone else involved in Trek, in fact the opposite I seek out such tales because to me the glorious future posited by Trek is all the more amazing for coming from fragile, fallible, fucked up human beings. That we can have greed, and licentiousness, and rage in our hearts and still dream of a day when we have grown past being so easily warped by such things is part of why I love Trek and why I cling to it as one of the few rational myths in existence.

Ultimately I think when it comes to Gene, Bloom County may have said it best...

"He was a sonuvabitch... For which we loved him like a brother!"
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Old August 23 2013, 11:38 PM   #36
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
^^^ and I've heard that his attempt is a result of having grown up, changed, and sincerely wanting to re-discover his father's legacy and all that...
Does he need to make a documentary in order to do that?

I don't have any feelings about the guy. He had nothing to do with Star Trek, and I've never watched his movie because I'm not interested in watching someone's therapy.
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Old August 24 2013, 01:17 AM   #37
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

I watched Trek Nation and didn't get the best vibe from the guy. Nothing terrible...but it does seem as though he is trying to now make money off of what his father has built. Which is not unique. People do that. Also keep in mind that he WAS a child/teen while Gene was working on Star Trek. He could not have possibly understood at that time, the magnitude. Also if a parent isn't around much and everyone is constantly talking about their work, of course you might grow to resent it.

I think people have a bigger problem with the fact that he is attempting to make money off of the franchise AFTER the fact.
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Old August 24 2013, 02:09 AM   #38
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
SchwEnt wrote: View Post
^^^ and I've heard that his attempt is a result of having grown up, changed, and sincerely wanting to re-discover his father's legacy and all that...
Does he need to make a documentary in order to do that?

I don't have any feelings about the guy. He had nothing to do with Star Trek, and I've never watched his movie because I'm not interested in watching someone's therapy.
That's true. He could have reconciled or re-discovered or whatever he did with his father's legacy unto himself. In fact, it probably should have been a personal and private matter. Isn't that what most of us would do anyway?

But he was in a position to produce and sell it, so hey, right?
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Old August 24 2013, 08:50 PM   #39
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

BrentMc wrote: View Post
Didn't Star Trek teach us better than to hate?
Picard and the Borg.

Picard out and out hates the Borg. He knew from his own experiences that once assimilated a drone could be rescued and "de-assimilated," inspite of that he still killed the Enterprise crewman on the floor being assimilated. Picard in his own mind did him a favor.

Leave no man behind (unless they're being assimilated).

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Old August 24 2013, 09:17 PM   #40
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
BrentMc wrote: View Post
Didn't Star Trek teach us better than to hate?
Picard and the Borg.

Picard out and out hates the Borg. He knew from his own experiences that once assimilated a drone could be rescued and "de-assimilated," inspite of that he still killed the Enterprise crewman on the floor being assimilated. Picard in his own mind did him a favor.

Leave no man behind (unless they're being assimilated).

When was there time to rescue and deassimilate that crewmember, or any other for that matter? I must have missed that part.
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Old August 25 2013, 01:39 AM   #41
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
BrentMc wrote: View Post
Didn't Star Trek teach us better than to hate?
Picard and the Borg.

Picard out and out hates the Borg. He knew from his own experiences that once assimilated a drone could be rescued and "de-assimilated," inspite of that he still killed the Enterprise crewman on the floor being assimilated. Picard in his own mind did him a favor.

Leave no man behind (unless they're being assimilated).

I wasn't saying that no character in Star Trek ever hated anyone, but I see your point. What I meant was Star Trek often had messages of getting along and giving people the benefit of the doubt. When I see haters I think I see people who didn't get the point of Star Trek and maybe they're the type of fan who just love the space battles
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Old August 25 2013, 01:40 AM   #42
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
When was there time to rescue and deassimilate that crewmember, or any other for that matter? I must have missed that part.
Yes, you much have. For later in the movie Picard did go and make an attempt to rescue Data.

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Old August 25 2013, 01:54 AM   #43
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
When was there time to rescue and deassimilate that crewmember, or any other for that matter? I must have missed that part.
Yes, you much have. For later in the movie Picard did go and make an attempt to rescue Data.

Yeah, LATER.

In the moment, there was no time to rescue each crewman who was being assimilated to a sickbay that may or may not have been under attack (remember that scene?) and have the Borg crap removed. How many were there? Who would go from deck to deck to find the crew and take them to be deassimilated? How many medical staff would that have taken, and how many security personnel would be needed to fight off the incoming Borg?

While a movie is playing you have time to go grab a box of Milk Duds, their self-deprecating name and remarkably mild flavor are the most apologetic of the boxed candies, but the characters in universe are fighting for their lives.

When it comes down to the nut cuttin', you do what you have to do for your crew. If that means making the decision to kill one who is being/has been assimilated by the Borg, you make the best decision you can at the time.

If that decision is colored by your own experience, so be it. You will live with the consequences of your actions.
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Old August 25 2013, 02:04 AM   #44
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

I can understand Rod Roddenberry for wanting to better know who Gene was, because he was around 17 when the man died. I was 19 when my Dad died, I was attending college and living at home, and then suddenly I was legally an orphan (due to the under 21 laws at that time).

Similarly, my biggest regret is I never had a chance to talk to my father while as an adult, and learn from his advice, perhaps avoiding many mistakes I've made in the last 40 years.

There's nothing wrong with Rod trying to earn money from the franchise. I'm in possession of poems my mother wrote before she died in 1965. I keep debating whether to make them publicly available. I really know nothing about her at all except she was a 17 year old from a large family when she married.
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Last edited by Melakon; August 25 2013 at 02:15 AM. Reason: broken into paragraphs
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Old August 25 2013, 02:39 AM   #45
marksound
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Re: Why do some people so passionately hate Rod Roddenberry?

Melakon wrote: View Post
I can understand Rod Roddenberry for wanting to better know who Gene was, because he was around 17 when the man died. I was 19 when my Dad died, I was attending college and living at home, and then suddenly I was legally an orphan (due to the under 21 laws at that time). Similarly, my biggest regret is I never had a chance to talk to my father while as an adult, and learn from his advice, perhaps avoiding many mistakes I've made in the last 40 years. There's nothing wrong with Rod trying to earn money from the franchise. I'm in possession of poems my mother wrote before she died in 1965. I keep debating whether to make them publicly available. I really know nothing about her at all except she was a 17 year old from a large family when she married.
Young people can't understand that as you get older you tend to look at your parents in a different way. Time and experience leads you to understand more of the things that your parents did when they were younger. They will see that in themselves in their daily lives, and they will either laugh or be horrified.

As I grow older, my father and I have more things in common than we did when I was growing up. My dad and I had a strained relationship for a lot of years, but with me in my 50s and he in his 70s, we're working to make it as good as it can be.

It's hard to explain, but rest assured that whatever you're going though there's someone nearby who can understand and help. But before they can help you, you have to be patient with them and help them understand.

I would bet that Rod is searching for his dad through his dad's work.

If people don't agree, that's ok. I'm just throwing that out there for those who don't have a good relationship with their parents and might want to make it better.

Rod maybe didn't get to resolve all the stuff with Gene, but whatever he needs to do to get closure is ok with me.

Of course, if your parents were child molesters or mass murderers none of this applies.
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