RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,778
Posts: 5,217,113
Members: 24,216
Currently online: 741
Newest member: momogila

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Enterprise

Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 22 2013, 11:56 PM   #16
jazzstick
Lieutenant Commander
 
jazzstick's Avatar
 
Location: The Darkside of The Moon
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

dub wrote: View Post
I think the better way to phrase the question is:

Why did the show get canceled in season 4 when all of the other spin-offs had 7 seasons?

That offers the question without injecting your view of the people behind the show doing a "half assed job" (unless you were trying to get a rise out of people).

Anyway, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess would be the ratings had something to do with it. And why were the ratings so low? People who love the series will tell you there are lots of factors (like over-saturation of Trek, studio interference, and other reasons). People who hate the show will tell you it's because the show sucked (and some people who say the show sucked didn't even watch all of it, and they admit it on this board)! And you know, it's kind of hard to blame its downfall on the series being lackluster when clearly the number of people tuning in for Trek was nosediving long before ENT. I would even argue that declining box office receipts for the TNG films contributed to the downfall of Trek on TV.

Anyway, here are the ratings for your analyzing pleasure:



And full disclosure: I enjoyed the series, and absolutely LOVED season 3!
Thank you, many good points and an awnser I can dig!

and for full disclosure as well, I watched them all myself and still didn't like it!
__________________
Sokath - his eyes uncovered.
jazzstick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 12:00 AM   #17
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Studio/TV execs don't always like to take risks. If X has worked before they think it'll work again. Though what can happen is the audiance has moved on from X and is looking for Y.

If a studio/TV exec takes a risk and it works everyone else copies it.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 12:00 AM   #18
Melakon
Rear Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Jazzstick, I think it's just that the folks who have been here for years (I'm not one of them), have seen this umpteen times. I know I've seen a lot similar threads in here, and I've been here less than 12 months. Usually though, it's some first-time cadet whose very first post on the board is how much he hates Enterprise.
__________________
Curly: Moe, Larry, the cheese! Moe, Larry, the cheese! (Horses Collars, 1935)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 12:17 AM   #19
jazzstick
Lieutenant Commander
 
jazzstick's Avatar
 
Location: The Darkside of The Moon
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Melakon wrote: View Post
Jazzstick, I think it's just that the folks who have been here for years (I'm not one of them), have seen this umpteen times. I know I've seen a lot similar threads in here, and I've been here less than 12 months. Usually though, it's some first-time cadet whose very first post on the board is how much he hates Enterprise.

No I understand but trust me I'm no Cadet. If I could I would sit on my ass and talk Trek with my fellow Trekkies all day long, but I can't so this forum is the next best thing. I would hate to endanger that by living under bridges and eating people's skin, but I also want to be honset about how I feel about something that is very special and very important to me...
__________________
Sokath - his eyes uncovered.
jazzstick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 06:47 AM   #20
HopefulRomantic
Phloxist Moderator
 
HopefulRomantic's Avatar
 
Location: feeding the cats again
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Eh, everyone has a right to their opinion, positive or negative. If there's one thing this forum is familiar with, it's negative opinions. C'mon, we have a new "TATV suxxx!!1!!" thread here every month or so. I love this show to pieces, but I also know it had its flaws, like any other show. I could ask for posters to try to take the emotion out of the mix and discuss things a little more objectively, but hey, this is Star Trek. It's a very passionate fandom. And Enterprise did not have a good death or a dignified exit, in the opinion of some, including me. Oh, how I wish we'd had 3 more seasons.

This is a discussion board, so a variety of opinions are welcome. I'll be happy if folks refrain from trying to bash each other over the head with their viewpoints and stay respectful of others even when you don't agree. Okay?

As for the OP, I don't think any self-respecting writer sets out to do bad work. But alas, professional writing by assignment isn't done in a vacuum. There are so many other people who have input and/or approval, whether they know effective story structure or not. And there are budget considerations, time constraints (especially in TV), network suits sticking their noses into things, and so forth. Add a fledgling network, inconsistent advertising, constant preemptions, and the everpresent threat of cancellation, and that will have an impact on the storytelling as well.

I assume the writers did they best they could given the circumstances. Many writers will be the first to tell you what didn't work about a story, and how they wish they'd had an extra week or a freer hand to fix it. But I think Enterprise had many outstanding episodes.
HopefulRomantic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 09:25 AM   #21
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

ENTERPRISE WAS FABULOUS.

That is all. EXCEPT.. I just saw John Billingsly on True Blood (as in RIGHT NOW) and I had to pause it to come to the ENT forum to pant. Because it was very exciting.

People don't appreciate ENT because they wore out all their Trek love on TNG and DS9.

Not everyone has my kind of stamina.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 10:11 AM   #22
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Enterprise was a little flawed from the get go. It was meant to be a prequel set a century before Kirk, but the kept all the same technology that Kirk and Picard had and instead of a meaningful "birth of the Federation" storyline we got the same disposable and forgettable planet-of-the-week plots which we'd seen ad nausium in TOS, TNG and VOY.

They originally dropped "Star Trek" from the title because they wanted to attract a wider audience - I guess the rationale being "If it says 'Star Trek' in the title it's just for Trekkies" (*cut to J.J. Abrams' laughing*)

Archer was annoying, incredibly naive (we're talking common sense fails here, not believable first-timers-in-space mistakes) and foolish, pestering aliens like an intergalactic Jehovah's Witness.

BUT, in spite of all this they managed a few great episodes in the first two seasons (as well as lots of cack or completely forgettable ones). And around the time of "Regeneration" I thought the show was starting to hit it's stride. Then came the season three revamp and Xindi story. Archer was fixed (and changed so much, he came across as bipolar), the others stopped being cardboard cutouts and for the first time, I was eagerly awaiting next week's episode because I didn't have a clue what was going to happen next. It was fun! My favourite season in all of Trek.

In season four they became the prequel that people expected from the get-go. I liked it, although not as much as the Xindi story.


Last year I rewatched all of The Original Series, Enterprise and Voyager, and enjoyed them. This year I tried to rewatch The Next Generation and couldn't. I loved it at the time, but it's aged terribly. Bad acting and direction, trite morals, little to no action....ugh.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 10:25 AM   #23
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
the others stopped being cardboard cutouts and for the first time
But don't you find that when you go back and watch seasons 1 and 2 you SEE what they become?
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 10:32 AM   #24
Melakon
Rear Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

I didn't see the entire series until this year, and I've watched all the episodes several times since then. There definitely is growth in many of the characters-- though Travis didn't seem to change that much for me.
__________________
Curly: Moe, Larry, the cheese! Moe, Larry, the cheese! (Horses Collars, 1935)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 10:35 AM   #25
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Teacake, I say this without irony. You're an example of the idealism of all us Trekkies. You always see the best. We can argue what that is, but never do you fail to look upon the franchise in a positive light.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 10:48 AM   #26
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Melakon wrote: View Post
I didn't see the entire series until this year, and I've watched all the episodes several times since then. There definitely is growth in many of the characters-- though Travis didn't seem to change that much for me.
Who?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Teacake, I say this without irony. You're an example of the idealism of all us Trekkies. You always see the best. We can argue what that is, but never do you fail to look upon the franchise in a positive light.
That's very sweet of you. When I eventually choke down a TNG rewatch I will keep this in mind as a personal goal.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 10:56 AM   #27
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

teacake wrote: View Post

R. Star wrote: View Post
Teacake, I say this without irony. You're an example of the idealism of all us Trekkies. You always see the best. We can argue what that is, but never do you fail to look upon the franchise in a positive light.
That's very sweet of you. When I eventually choke down a TNG rewatch I will keep this in mind as a personal goal.
Well I never recall you saying anything bad about TNG(or that I think about it anything at all...) ... but to your statement who can ask more? I still qualify you as a "pure" Trekkie in your love for the franchise as you seldom criticize any of it.

I fully admit TNG was what I grew up on, and is always something that makes me smile. It may not be fair that I don't hold Voyager or Enterprise up to it's standards.... but how can I avoid it? TNG was good... and then DS9 raised the bar so high that no Trek franchise could match. But I can dream that one day one will.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 11:07 AM   #28
Tulin
Vice Admiral
 
Location: With the most wonderful man in the world!
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

teacake wrote: View Post
ENTERPRISE WAS FABULOUS.

That is all. EXCEPT.. I just saw John Billingsly on True Blood (as in RIGHT NOW) and I had to pause it to come to the ENT forum to pant. Because it was very exciting.

People don't appreciate ENT because they wore out all their Trek love on TNG and DS9.

Not everyone has my kind of stamina.
Or, you know, they didn't like it, because people have different opinions.

Your idea of "stamina" might be somebody else's idea of needless "self punishment".
Tulin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 11:13 AM   #29
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

R. Star wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post

R. Star wrote: View Post
Teacake, I say this without irony. You're an example of the idealism of all us Trekkies. You always see the best. We can argue what that is, but never do you fail to look upon the franchise in a positive light.
That's very sweet of you. When I eventually choke down a TNG rewatch I will keep this in mind as a personal goal.
Well I never recall you saying anything bad about TNG(or that I think about it anything at all...) ... but to your statement who can ask more?

I fully admit TNG was what I grew up on, and is always something that makes me smile. It may not be fair that I don't hold Voyager or Enterprise up to it's standards.... but how can I avoid it? TNG was good... and then DS9 raised the bar so high that no Trek franchise could match. But I can dream that one day one will.
I don't like being a hater. I might have had a few characters over the years I've hated on but they've all somehow muddled their way into redemption other than Riker so now all my hating falls on him. Oh and TATV.

I grew up on TOS reruns which I was in love with. The usual blah blah blah socially odd child who relates to Spock and is inspired by Star Trek. I was a walking trope LOLOL..

Then, as an adult, I had friends who had bought the TNG videos come over each week for a TNG session. I was happy to watch Star Trek and I was happy that Star Trek was continuing but never fell in love with it. Some of it was just so embarrassing.. though I readily admired Picard as a captain and I appreciated how they took a deliberate step to make him quite different than Kirk. Never was enamored with him like Kirk but I appreciated him.

Some years later I started renting DS9 videos and I was like.. OMFG. THIS IS TELEVISION. And the instant I was done with that I started renting VOY videos and I was laughing my ass off over the humor and loving the mood shift from DS9 and I was very very happy. I LOVED THEM BOTH SO MUCH!! And of course I still loved TOS, I had bought all the videos on ebay and it was actually better than I remembered and Kirk was hotter than I remembered too

With ENT I was bored watching on tv here, playing at midnight with endless phone sex ads, put on hold for every possible sport.. but then I watched it in my own time with no ads and when I got to season 3 I was shocked at how good it was. And when I watched season 4 I found myself thinking this was some of the best Trek I had ever seen (and yes, fanwank, totally agree.. still enjoy it.)

I don't have a conversion story with TNG. It's too bad, but 5 out of 6 is still a lovely success (I have left out my TAS tale of happiness, LOL).

I totally get that a lot of people got hooked on Trek with TNG and it is special. And I am very happy it did just that because that's why we are still getting movies and you and I can still hope that one day we may be watching and reviewing and bitching about a series that surpasses them all.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23 2013, 11:39 AM   #30
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Tulin wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
ENTERPRISE WAS FABULOUS.

That is all. EXCEPT.. I just saw John Billingsly on True Blood (as in RIGHT NOW) and I had to pause it to come to the ENT forum to pant. Because it was very exciting.

People don't appreciate ENT because they wore out all their Trek love on TNG and DS9.

Not everyone has my kind of stamina.
Or, you know, they didn't like it, because people have different opinions.

Your idea of "stamina" might be somebody else's idea of needless "self punishment".
I have Star Trek viagra. I'm willing to make deals.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.